What are heroic measures???

blueeyedgurl · Oct 11, 2004

Ok our family is going through a tough time with my grandmother right now. She had a massive stroke and is now in a rehabilitation center. She cannot talk, and cannot use the right side of her body. She can however smile, and squeeze our hands and also give us hugs. My Mom is a RN who is also the medical power of attorney. The other day my Grandma stopped eating and won't take any of her pills. Because of this she became dehydrated and an IV was started. The Dr. called and said that he wanted to start a feeding tube which my mother said no to. My grandma had said that she wanted no heroic measures if something life threatening happened to her. On Sat. the Dr called and said that she has blood in her stool and he wanted to do a colonoscpy. My mom said no to that also. He called back on Sun and said that her hemoglobin is 8 and that she needs a blood transfusion. My mom said no. I am a first semster nursing student, and this is my grandma, maybe i am not seeing the same light as my mom, I know that none of this will bring back her old functions, but a blood transfusion? Why not? What if she were in a car wreck and needed a transfusion...would my mom say yes? I just don't know where medical care stops and heroic measures come in...any idea????? :uhoh3:

leslie :-D · Oct 11, 2004

Ok our family is going through a tough time with my grandmother right now. She had a massive stroke and is now in a rehabilitation center. She cannot talk, and cannot use the right side of her body. She can however smile, and squeeze our hands and also give us hugs. My Mom is a RN who is also the medical power of attorney. The other day my Grandma stopped eating and won't take any of her pills. Because of this she became dehydrated and an IV was started. The Dr. called and said that he wanted to start a feeding tube which my mother said no to. My grandma had said that she wanted no heroic measures if something life threatening happened to her. On Sat. the Dr called and said that she has blood in her stool and he wanted to do a colonoscpy. My mom said no to that also. He called back on Sun and said that her hemoglobin is 8 and that she needs a blood transfusion. My mom said no. I am a first semster nursing student, and this is my grandma, maybe i am not seeing the same light as my mom, I know that none of this will bring back her old functions, but a blood transfusion? Why not? What if she were in a car wreck and needed a transfusion...would my mom say yes? I just don't know where medical care stops and heroic measures come in...any idea?????

i'm really sorry about your grandmother and your sadness/confusion.

heroic measures usually mean that anything done will only have a temporary effect.

your grandmother obviously let it be known that she did not want a fdg tube; she does not want to live the rest of her life dependent and with minimal function.

and it sounds like your mother is respecting her wishes, acknowledging that any interventions done would not add to the quality of her life.

again, i'm truly sorry.

leslie xo

leslie :-D · Oct 11, 2004

Ok our family is going through a tough time with my grandmother right now. She had a massive stroke and is now in a rehabilitation center. She cannot talk, and cannot use the right side of her body. She can however smile, and squeeze our hands and also give us hugs. My Mom is a RN who is also the medical power of attorney. The other day my Grandma stopped eating and won't take any of her pills. Because of this she became dehydrated and an IV was started. The Dr. called and said that he wanted to start a feeding tube which my mother said no to. My grandma had said that she wanted no heroic measures if something life threatening happened to her. On Sat. the Dr called and said that she has blood in her stool and he wanted to do a colonoscpy. My mom said no to that also. He called back on Sun and said that her hemoglobin is 8 and that she needs a blood transfusion. My mom said no. I am a first semster nursing student, and this is my grandma, maybe i am not seeing the same light as my mom, I know that none of this will bring back her old functions, but a blood transfusion? Why not? What if she were in a car wreck and needed a transfusion...would my mom say yes? I just don't know where medical care stops and heroic measures come in...any idea?????

i'm really sorry about your grandmother and your sadness/confusion.

heroic measures usually mean that anything done will only have a temporary effect.

your grandmother obviously let it be known that she did not want a fdg tube; she does not want to live the rest of her life dependent and with minimal function.

and it sounds like your mother is respecting her wishes, acknowledging that any interventions done would not add to the quality of her life.

again, i'm truly sorry.

leslie xo

Trauma Columnist · Oct 11, 2004

Have you talked with your mother? I think she is doing what your grandmother would want. I know that it is hard to see. However, since you are concerned, I'm sure that your mom wouldn't mind talking to you about what your grandmother wanted. Please take care of yourself!

Trauma Columnist · Oct 11, 2004

Have you talked with your mother? I think she is doing what your grandmother would want. I know that it is hard to see. However, since you are concerned, I'm sure that your mom wouldn't mind talking to you about what your grandmother wanted. Please take care of yourself!

CCU NRS · Oct 11, 2004

You should have this discussion with your mother, and find out exactly what she is planning and if your G-mother spoke to her about these decisions and if she had an Advanced Directive and assigned your mother health care proxy. If this is the case everything will be written down on the Advanced Directive and perhaps you could read it.

Usually when we explain heroic measure to our family members, I explain CPR and chest compressions, I explain that we can use medications for arrythmias or not, we can intubate or not. Doing CPR and intubating and using cardiac meds are seen as heroic measures when it is for survival. These measure in a 30 y/o MVA are heroic as well but a 30 y/o has a good chance of surviving. Apparently your mother feels that the things being offered will only prolong the inevitable. Your G-mother may have told your mother that if she was in such a condition that these things would prolong her life but not ultimately save her life or return her to her previous level of activity that she wished to be allowed to pass without going through anything that would only prolong suffering.

I understand how this can seem somehow uncaring or even mean, you feel that if your G-mother needs blood then won't she feel better if she gets blood? But the blood may only prolong her suffering and make it take longer for her pass.

CCU NRS · Oct 11, 2004

You should have this discussion with your mother, and find out exactly what she is planning and if your G-mother spoke to her about these decisions and if she had an Advanced Directive and assigned your mother health care proxy. If this is the case everything will be written down on the Advanced Directive and perhaps you could read it.

Usually when we explain heroic measure to our family members, I explain CPR and chest compressions, I explain that we can use medications for arrythmias or not, we can intubate or not. Doing CPR and intubating and using cardiac meds are seen as heroic measures when it is for survival. These measure in a 30 y/o MVA are heroic as well but a 30 y/o has a good chance of surviving. Apparently your mother feels that the things being offered will only prolong the inevitable. Your G-mother may have told your mother that if she was in such a condition that these things would prolong her life but not ultimately save her life or return her to her previous level of activity that she wished to be allowed to pass without going through anything that would only prolong suffering.

I understand how this can seem somehow uncaring or even mean, you feel that if your G-mother needs blood then won't she feel better if she gets blood? But the blood may only prolong her suffering and make it take longer for her pass.