What is the difference between NP and DNP?

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I was looking into future possibilities through Arizona State University and noticed that all their NP programs are "DNP". Does this mean you get the title of Dr. once you get this degree vs the NP degrees?

I have a long ways to go, but I can't find the answer to this anywhere and it's confusing.

Thanks,

Amber

I live in AZ, and yes, the NP's practice here without a physician. The counseling center I was applying to work at, (admin position) hires MSW for counselors and also employs 2 NP's. Today I asked them about the Np's and there is no physician there, just the 2 Np's that provide psychiatric care. My guess it's a lot cheaper and easier to find Np's than a psychiatrist.

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Dq, elk, & aj - thank you for that education. I had no idea that NP's were able to operate without any type of physician supervision or oversight anywhere, let alone in 11 states.

While I knew the nursing organizations wielded incredible political power, I didn't know that the AMA, and other physician organizations, had lost so much ground to them.

So, to stay on topic, do you think that if/when the DNP becomes more common and more accepted there will be a greater trend for DNPs to become independent practitioners everywhere? And, on a related note, do you feel that DNP education prepares you to practice with complete independence from a physician??

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Specializes in ACNP, ICU.

as of yet, there really is no legal recognition for the DNP, meaning its only the certification that wants to require the DNP. However, you need that certification to have a license.

I do think that a DNP prepared nurse would function quite well in many primary care situations, independently. However, I dont think nursing education has evolved to the level medical education has. The DNP is a step in that evolution. As nursing continues to get its @#%$ together, the end result will be an educational paradigm founded on nursing's culture and principles. It will not mirror medicine exactly, because the origins are different. Just as osteopathic is different from allopathic, so will a DNP be differ from either of those. I have no doubt this will eventually happen.

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Dq, elk, & aj - thank you for that education. I had no idea that NP's were able to operate without any type of physician supervision or oversight anywhere, let alone in 11 states.

While I knew the nursing organizations wielded incredible political power, I didn't know that the AMA, and other physician organizations, had lost so much ground to them.

So, to stay on topic, do you think that if/when the DNP becomes more common and more accepted there will be a greater trend for DNPs to become independent practitioners everywhere? And, on a related note, do you feel that DNP education prepares you to practice with complete independence from a physician??

First, not all physician organizations oppose advanced practice nursing practice, and, second, the reason the medical community has "lost ground" to nursing -- as you put it -- is because NPs and the other advanced practice nurses have proven themselves to be safe, responsible practitioners over decades of practice and they are v. popular with the public.

In general, regardless of what the degree is named, the trend is toward greater independence for advanced practice nurses across the board -- and the successful "track records" in the states that have led that trend is providing reassurance and encouragement to the slower-moving states.

I'm not a fan at all of the DNP trend (IMHO, it's mostly hype to make more money for schools) -- in my experience, all of us advanced practice nurses have been practicing safely and responsibly with or without physician oversight, within our established scopes of practice and educational preparation, just fine for decades as Master's-prepared clinicians. (If it ain't broke, I don't see any need to fix it, and I'm not at all impressed with the (few, admittedly) DNP curricula I've looked at.)

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I don't think that DNPs should call themselves "doctor" in a clinical setting. If you think all patients are savvy enough to distinguish between nursing doctors and medical doctors, you a deluded beyond repair. Well you say, "what about optometrists, dentists, podiatrists, pharmacists, PTs" all calling themselves doctor. First off, most PTs and pharmacists don't refer to themselves as "doctor" in a clinical setting to avoid confusion. Secondly, each of these groups has their own niche while DNPs do not. Pods (foot and ankle), Pharmacists, Dentists (teeth), etc. Nurses calling themselves "doctor" is conflating physicians and nurses and this is not fair to physicians and not fair to patients who don't know any better and shouldn't have to.

What if CNAs were able to take a 3 week course where they earned the title of nurse (not RN or LPN, but something else)? These CNAs would introduce themselves as nurse because they "earned it". Do you think that is fair?

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Specializes in ACNP, ICU.
I don't think that DNPs should call themselves "doctor" in a clinical setting. If you think all patients are savvy enough to distinguish between nursing doctors and medical doctors, you a deluded beyond repair. Well you say, "what about optometrists, dentists, podiatrists, pharmacists, PTs" all calling themselves doctor. First off, most PTs and pharmacists don't refer to themselves as "doctor" in a clinical setting to avoid confusion. Secondly, each of these groups has their own niche while DNPs do not. Pods (foot and ankle), Pharmacists, Dentists (teeth), etc. Nurses calling themselves "doctor" is conflating physicians and nurses and this is not fair to physicians and not fair to patients who don't know any better and shouldn't have to.

What if CNAs were able to take a 3 week course where they earned the title of nurse (not RN or LPN, but something else)? These CNAs would introduce themselves as nurse because they "earned it". Do you think that is fair?

this guy kinda sounds like a troll.

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this guy kinda sounds like a troll.

people who resort to namecalling usually don't have a good argument

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Specializes in ACNP, ICU.
people who resort to namecalling usually don't have a good argument

as stated many times before in this thread the discussion is about the difference between np and dnp. you are off topic.

besides, you go to medical school to earn a doctor of medicine and then become a physician. Doctor is an academic title. Nurses are not asking to be called physicians. Physicians have enjoyed a monopoly on the "Dr" title but other people have earned Doctorates in their professions and have earned the right to the title also. Times change

I do not assume my patients are too dumb to understand the difference between an NP and MD so i will always be happy to explain to them.

Troll= someone who registers with a forum with the sole intent of trying to incite arguments, create controversy and be a general PIA to the forum members.

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as stated many times before in this thread the discussion is about the difference between np and dnp. you are off topic.

besides, you go to medical school to earn a doctor of medicine and then become a physician. Doctor is an academic title. Nurses are not asking to be called physicians. Physicians have enjoyed a monopoly on the "Dr" title but other people have earned Doctorates in their professions and have earned the right to the title also. Times change

Back to the original question, what is the difference between NP and DNP?

So I selected 2 programs that would be considered top tier hospitals and offer either the DNP or the masters level NP- Duke and MGH (Harvard's most well known hospital). Duke offers a masters and Harvard the DNP.

http://nursing.duke.edu/wysiwyg/downloads/msn-fnp-full-time-online-mat-plan.pdf

http://www.mghihp.edu/academics/nursing/degree-options/rn-to-doctor-of-nursing-practice/curriculum/family.aspx

Notice that every important class is present in both the DNP and NP.

Harvard DNP vs Duke NP

Path- 2 credits vs Path 3 credits

Pharm 3 vs Pharm 3 credits

Population health 3 vs Population based approach 3

Diagnostic reasoning 4 credits vs Diagnostic reasoning 4

“Residency”- 5 credits vs "Residency" 4

Measuring outcomes- 3 credits vs Health outcomes 3

Designing research 2 credits vs Research methods 3

Research analysis 3 credits vs Research utilization 3

Fm health I, II, III 11 credits vs management of health problems 8

Biostats 3 credits vs Statistics 2 credits

Adolescent 3 credits and psych 3 credits vs Child 4 credits and Sexual/reproductive 4 creditis

Screening 2 credits vs Disease prevention 3 credits

Where the extra credits of the DNP go

18 credits of non-clinical courses: Healthcare policy, leadership, professionalism, Communication, Informatics, Theory of knowledge development, capstone

6 credits of clinical courses: Practicum and diagnostic measures

So in the end, 6 credits of clinically relevant courses separate a clinical masters from a clinical doctorate.

So now, who has "earned" that doctorate?

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as stated many times before in this thread the discussion is about the difference between np and dnp. you are off topic.

besides, you go to medical school to earn a doctor of medicine and then become a physician. Doctor is an academic title. Nurses are not asking to be called physicians. Physicians have enjoyed a monopoly on the "Dr" title but other people have earned Doctorates in their professions and have earned the right to the title also. Times change

I do not assume my patients are too dumb to understand the difference between an NP and MD so i will always be happy to explain to them.

Troll= someone who registers with a forum with the sole intent of trying to incite arguments, create controversy and be a general PIA to the forum members.

well how do you respond to my cna comment?

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Specializes in General.
well how do you respond to my cna comment?

they should identifiy themselves as a Certified nursing assistent , they are not nurses, in the state of illinois to pose or present one as a nurse is a violation of the Nurse practice act,. I introduce myself as hi i am so and so a NP so they know that I am not an MD

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Specializes in General.

so when do we get back to the real debate here between the differences between NP and DNP lets get back on topic here

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