Universal Health Care... what would this mean...

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hypothetically, how would universal healthcare affect us as nurses? the demand? our salaries? ive had a taste of the whole universal healthcare thing with the movie Sicko coming out and the upcoming election... but i dont know enough to say anything... any ideas?

:cheers:

The second point you tried to make is that everyone has a right to good quality free health care. THis is an oxymoron in terms of what we can afford to provide given the budget we would have.

I don't know if it's an oxymoron, but it is a good point that there are limits to the type and amount of care we can afford, either as individuals or as a society. The question is how do we balance the costs between individuals and society. If we leave it fully up to individuals, the only those with substantial resources can afford to be chronically ill or have a lengthy hospitalization or have this or that life-saving treatment. In a more socialized system, individuals will have to abide by whatever options are determined to be most cost-effective overall, which might mean less care (or less quality, less modern care) than they'd choose for themselves. On the other hand, it could be more care than they'd ever have been able to afford on their own.

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The second point you tried to make is that everyone has a right to good quality free health care. THis is an oxymoron in terms of what we can afford to provide given the budget we would have.

There is no such thing as "free". Unless of course, you are a volunteer nurse, drugs cost nothing, and there is no need for research and development.

This is the big problem with universal healthcare. It is not "universal". As you say, cancer drugs aren't available to "everyone", so who decides who gets them? The Queen? The Archbishop? Just curious. In America, we really don't accept that kind of authoritarian system. That is why we fought the Revolutionary War, you see!

Another statement that is an oxymoron: "Everyone has a right to good quality free health care..." But, realistically, care that has made you wait is not quality at all.

It is neither free, fair or of high quality.

The true answer is tort reform.

I'm sorry what I meant was, in a utopia wouldn't it be lovely if we had no problems!!!! :D sorry to confuse! However I am very realistic and can see the disadvantages of both systems and one'll never have the "perfect" health care system. There is no way one can make everybody happy all of the time.

In regards to who decides on treatments, well like zippygbr said NICE (national institute for clinical excellence) and primary care trusts (PCTs) and within those PCTs there is a public health department, which my housemate (a junior doctor) worked for. She looked at research and the whole case and used an objective perspective to decide whether a patient should get a certain treatment (she didn't do any cancer related work, but other procedures and very new drug/treatments that GPs or consultants wanted funding for). She said it was quite a hard job, especially the very rude emails that she got when she refused people!

Spacenurse, I work on a very busy 29 bedded respiratory ward, I start IVs, but can't take bloods or put cannulas in, I have to go on a seperate training course for this. Often on a shift we will have 3 trained nurses and 1 untrained (or health care assistant), this means that 1 nurse is in charge, dealing with discharges, staffing levels and coordinating etc, and then the other two trained take half the ward each, doing drugs, obs, dressings etc. the untrained floats and helps whoever needs it. It is very busy and we are trying to get more staff, but funding is an issue! Hope that helps.

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Society changes, inevitable. I see it as obvious societal growth that every human being on the planet have access to proper healthcare.

Perhaps it is time that our priorities change.

It will be difficult to balance life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness with universal healthcare, but we have lots of time.

Either majority agrees on the change to universal healthcare, or fate tends to lend a hand.

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double posted-sorry

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Unfortunately, when we realistically look at the situation, it is drugs, alcohol, unrestrained sexual habits, and cigarette usage that causes 70% of the healthcare problems today.

Why should the 30% healthy, those who choose to live a life of clean and healthy lifestyle, pay the tab for those who choose to have a risky lifestyle?

We can claim to be getting more and more sophisticated as our society changes but be realistic: the song remains the same. Good health comes from a stable, careful lifestyle. That is the answer to good healthcare, not dependence upon pharmaceuticals.

It is getting worse, not better.

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if money is tight are you going to pay the true price for a drug regime including newer agents?

if you are going to be charged for your retinal screening - are you going to go ?

how often are you going to go and get U+Es and HBA1C taken if you are charged for it ?

blame the 'victim' why don't you

case management in the USA is about maximising profit, case management in the Uk is about optimising resource use...

Diabetes Mellitus II patients are not victims. They could have it under control with diet and exercise at an early stage. If someone refuses to comply with diet and exercise regime, then they will get worse, but they are not a victim of anything except their chosen lifestyle.

Here in the states, children are constantly beaten over the head with "Red Ribbon" value do not abuse drugs, alcohol or smoke. It is not as if we do not press the message.

Read the post from ksilty. People who are treating those with these lifestyle choice diseases know that it is refusal to value treatment that makes many of the 'victims' worse.

I have to pay for all my medical care, because I have always been on an 80/20 plan with a high deductible. All my tests have been paid out of pocket. But due to the fact that my family is 'low risk' in lifestyle, we do not have a great deal of problems.

I would actually be for universal healthcare if it only provided those services that are the ones that are not self-induced, due to neglectful health personal choices.

Tort reform is essential. Here is an article written by the Ohio Healthcare providers' Association:

http://www.ohanet.org/media/fact_sheets/med_mal.pdf

Because of these problem in Nevada, it is difficult to find an OB/GYN.

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diabetes mellitus ii patients are not victims. they could have it under control with diet and exercise at an early stage. if someone refuses to comply with diet and exercise regime, then they will get worse, but they are not a victim of anything except their chosen lifestyle.

here in the states, children are constantly beaten over the head with "red ribbon" value" do not abuse drugs, alcohol or smoke. it is not as if we do not press the message.

read the post from ksilty. people who are treating those with these lifestyle choice diseases know that it is refusal to value treatment that makes many of the 'victims' worse.[/quote

so all people who make bad choices that affect their health don't deserve healthcare?what about the people who drive recklessly and get in an auto accident and sustain a brain injury, what about the women who remain in abusive marriages ? what about athletes, skiers, ice skaters, bicyclers, rollerskaters, runners, they all are at risk for sustaining injuries.what about secretaries and carpal tunnel, nurses and back problems,etc, etc. we all live lives in the real world, not a bubble of safe moral living. people are human, they still deserve health care. also diabetes 2 is not 100% attributable to bad diet or lifestyle.

type 2 diabetes: type 2 diabetes is believed to have a strong genetic link, meaning that it tends to run in families. several genes are being studied that may be related to the cause of type 2 diabetes. risk factors for developing type 2 diabetes include the following:
  • high blood pressure
  • high blood triglyceride (fat) levels
  • gestational diabetes or giving birth to a baby weighing more than 9 pounds
  • high-fat diet
  • high alcohol intake
  • sedentary lifestyle
  • obesity or being overweight
  • ethnicity: certain groups, such as african americans, native americans, hispanic americans, and japanese americans, have a greater risk of developing type 2 diabetes than non-hispanic whites.
  • aging: increasing age is a significant risk factor for type 2 diabetes. risk begins to rise significantly at about age 45 years, and rises considerably after age 65 years.

people will continue to make mistakes, some will not be compliant with cares or meds, some did bring in their illnesses by poor choice, but again , are we as americans ready to deny these people health care?
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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

OK, I'll weigh in here as a newly diagnosed Type II diabetic:

Yes, I know my disease is directly attributable to lifestyle. I got fat when I started having babies, drank like a fish for 15 years, smoked like the proverbial chimney for ten, and have generally treated my body like garbage since I graduated from high school. I don't blame anyone else for this; in fact, if I were to kick the person responsible for my diabetes, I wouldn't sit down for a week. My picture is in the dictionary, across from the definition of Metabolic Syndrome. I even flunked the RealAge test---according to this rather involved survey, I'm 61.8 years old. Which would be OK if I weren't actually 49.

My only saving grace is, I'm still fortunate enough to be working and 'earning' my health insurance, wicked though I am. Lord help me, however, if the fecal material collides with the oscillatory ventilation system and I become unable to do so. Because I have ruined my body by making poor choices, I will be deemed unworthy of health care and, I presume, left to rot if I can't afford to go to the doctor or buy my medications. It won't matter that I did many good things for others during my productive years, or that I loved and was loved by others; in this brave new world run by the "deserving", I will be just so much trash to be kicked to the curb.

No wonder so many of us Baby Boomers fear growing old in this country.........with the prospect of suffering and the prevailing attitude that it's "every man for himself" if we get sick through our own fault, what, in the name of all that is reasonable, is there to look forward to?

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OK, I'll weigh in here as a newly diagnosed Type II diabetic:

Yes, I know my disease is directly attributable to lifestyle. I got fat when I started having babies, drank like a fish for 15 years, smoked like the proverbial chimney for ten, and have generally treated my body like garbage since I graduated from high school. I don't blame anyone else for this; in fact, if I were to kick the person responsible for my diabetes, I wouldn't sit down for a week. My picture is in the dictionary, across from the definition of Metabolic Syndrome. I even flunked the RealAge test---according to this rather involved survey, I'm 61.8 years old. Which would be OK if I weren't actually 49.

My only saving grace is, I'm still fortunate enough to be working and 'earning' my health insurance, wicked though I am. Lord help me, however, if the fecal material collides with the oscillatory ventilation system and I become unable to do so. Because I have ruined my body by making poor choices, I will be deemed unworthy of health care and, I presume, left to rot if I can't afford to go to the doctor or buy my medications. It won't matter that I did many good things for others during my productive years, or that I loved and was loved; in this brave new world run by the "deserving", I will be just so much trash to be kicked to the curb.

No wonder so many of us Baby Boomers fear growing old in this country.........with the threat of literally being condemned to suffering and death if we can't pay for our health care needs, and the attitude that it's "every man for himself", what's to look forward to?

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou, some are just so ready to pass judgement that they totally negate the persons worth as a human or formerly hard working productive human,I get so disheartened to read the many posts by fellow health care providers that do this. These past few days on these forums have been shocking to me, I guess I thought nurses embraced the core values they were taught in nursing school, doctors are no better.I felt like saying to some of the posters the very same thing you said, I am loved by many despite my disabilities, I have done some pretty darn good things in my life and continue to strive to do as much as I can. I get depressed reading this stuff coming from nurses, ugh.
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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

This is the thing: I DON'T blame anyone else for what I've done to myself. No one held a gun to my head and forced me to eat until I ballooned to 354 pounds (at one point). I got diabetes because I did all the wrong things, and I don't expect anyone to carry me on their backs forever if I get sick and can no longer support myself. All I ask is that I be given back some of what I put into the system all my working life if I need it, that the services I've been paying for to take care of other people will be available to me. And NO, I don't need other nurses, doctors, or assorted healthcare professionals judging me on my "lifestyle". Don't you know that I have done a perfectly good job of judging MYSELF every day for the past 25 years?

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This is the thing: I DON'T blame anyone else for what I've done to myself. No one held a gun to my head and forced me to eat until I ballooned to 354 pounds (at one point). I got diabetes because I did all the wrong things, and I don't expect anyone to carry me on their backs forever if I get sick and can no longer support myself. All I ask is that I be given back some of what I put into the system all my working life if I need it, that the services I've been paying for to take care of other people will be available to me. And NO, I don't need other nurses, doctors, or assorted healthcare professionals judging me on my "lifestyle". Don't you know that I have condemned MYSELF every day for the past 25 years?
Marla, first let me say that whatever our sins have been we are living breathing humans STILL worthy of respect , dignity and some degree of understanding. We who have paid into the system for many year, me 35 years, do deserve the entitlements that our nation has made available to us, IT IS OUR MONEY, as Timothy always harps on. What is so sad is to see these judgement calls by fellow nurses, doctors, they don't know what caused you or I to overeat and become obese and do harm to our bodies, maybe if they had to live the lives we did, they may have done worse. Walk a mile in my shoes, if you dare, I sometimes feel like saying.

We who know you ,love you and appreciate you for wit, brains, for being such a good loving mom to your kids, and a good friend to us here on these forums :heartbeat

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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
Diabetes Mellitus II patients are not victims. They could have it under control with diet and exercise at an early stage. If someone refuses to comply with diet and exercise regime, then they will get worse, but they are not a victim of anything except their chosen lifestyle.

This is a very disturbing comment, coming from a healthcare professional. No one said Type II diabetics were 'victims', and I certainly don't consider myself one. Please don't judge people like me until you've walked a mile in our moccasins. It is nothing short of insulting.

If diet and exercise were as easy as you seem to think, there would be few diabetics, and certainly no fat people. No one, but no one, would CHOOSE this life.......especially not when healthcare providers are so quick to assume an air of superiority and belittle us for our alleged lack of discipline.

I have forgotten more about self-control than most people learn in a lifetime. Yet I'm still fat, and I'm still a diabetic. Guess that makes me totally worthless in some folks' estimation. :stone

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