Undermined Education

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Do you ever feel like your education is, let's say, not important in others eyes? And I mean faculty, CRNAs, MDAs. I don't even come from a program with MDA residents, but I often feel that we don't get 100% of the opportunities we should. Like when there are residents doing an anesthesia rotation in peds (or adult) who are there only to learn to intubate. Why should they get to do all of the intubations? Is there no other room without an anesthesia student in it? I personally don't care about there numbers, or the fact that they need to learn it, I NEED TO LEARN IT. Another favorite is a trauma or code needing intubating. Why should the surgical residents get first crack at it? Aren't these the situations I should learn how to handle? I'm tired of respiratory not letting anyone handle the airway (even though they're doing it incorrectly), and residents not letting anyone else intubate. Why does everyone think they're an airway specialist, and even if there is an airway specialist (CRNA, MDA) in the room, they still think they should handle the airway. I'm getting real tired of being told, "the MDA wants to intubate this one, we're gonna let the resident handle this one, respiratory therapy needs to learn how to bag so they're gonna do ECTs" I pay for my education, I care about learning this stuff while no one else does. I think it is pertinent for me to know what I'm doing, so that when I'm alone on some night shift somewhere without residents I'll know what to do. And believe me, I don't just stand back, I fight for my experiences. I just don't think I should have to fight so hard. People should be backing us up, MDAs should be backing us up, and our faculty should definitely be backing us up. It's not at all hospitals that this is a problem, just my home base. I have been at smaller hospitals that had us students do everything and I was so grateful for it. Do any other students have any experiences like this?

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Specializes in Nurse Practitioner/CRNA Pain Mgmt.

I've heard the same thing from other people that I met at the recent AANA meeting in Washington D.C. The fact that, residents have preference over anesthetist students with intubation, regionals, etc. Fortunately in my program, the anesthetist students have preference over residents most of the times. Our MDAs are PRO anesthetist students. They love to teach.

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What program do you attend???

I've heard the same thing from other people that I met at the recent AANA meeting in Washington D.C. The fact that, residents have preference over anesthetist students with intubation, regionals, etc. Fortunately in my program, the anesthetist students have preference over residents most of the times. Our MDAs are PRO anesthetist students. They love to teach.
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this is why it is so important to research CRNA programs thoroughly. Not having to compete with residents or getting more than a 2 week rotation in pediatrics is extremely important.

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Jewel Cut are you at Mayo? This sounds like their kind of style.

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No, I'm at Oakland. But it doesn't happen all the time, and I do rotate other places. I just don't think it should happen at all. And we don't have MDA residents there, so we're not competing for cases. Unfortunately the surgical world there really sucks.

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hoopjumper makes a good point. Smaller rural hospitals may actually offer crna students a better experience when it comes to epidurals, spinals, and experience with intubations. this is because there are not competing practitioners. However, the downside is that you may not learn as much from all the competition. I imagine you're probably blowing off steam jewelcut, but think of the positive side as well. You will probably learn a heck of a lot being around these guys even if you're not the one intubating or performing that procedure. Keep staying toward the front in wanting to do procedures, and I'm sure the extra knowledge you learn while standing in the background will kick in when those scary intubations do come along.

Also, if you're not getting the experience you deserve, you may want to mention it to your institution or clinical preceptor/instructor. I have been told by my school that if at any time during clinical, i'm not getting what i need to graduate, then I am to give notification, and they will transfer me to another clinical site where I will get my fair number of intubations, epidurals, lines, etc. hopefully you're school will listen. If they don't, I guess you have to take it upon yourself to just keep doing what you are doing. It sounds as if you are doing it well.

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I think many people experience your frustration. I get plenty of cases and experience, BUT i do remember a few times, one in particular where i spent hours preparing for a case, got there at the butt crack of dawn to make sure my room was absolutely perfect, even went over every detail step by step with my crna and mda, only for it to be taken away from me at the last minute because someone else (the mda) decided she wanted to do it for her own experience.....i could have cried right there in the OR.:crying2: Every facility is different, even if it's "stolen" from you, dont waste time being peed off, instead watch and learn from them, which is very hard to do, especially if you know you should be the one up at the head of the bed!!! Fight for your right to learn, but choose those battles wisely.

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It also depends on the hospital, the one that I think you are speaking of caters to the surgeons, which also means the residents. It has always been like that there for as far back as I can remember........

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My school sends us to multiple clinical sites

I have been to some sites where open hostility to SRNA's is not uncommon. Right now, I am doing my regional rotation, I was twice been a procedure room and the RN mentions to the MDA that she thinks this patient would not be appropraite for a student. Fortunately, the MDA told her (thank you, I will handle it). The MDA then proceeded to stand in alongside me and observed/admonish me do the procedure. I had felt like saying something to RN, but twice i had bitten my tongue. Well, one of my classmates could not hold their tongue and had to say something to her about her attitude. We have not had a problem with her since then.

There are some sites where a case would be tagged as "not a student case" for the mere fact that it percieved as challenging. I figure that is just the sort of experience i require.

At the end of each site rotation, we are to evaluate the clinical site and CRNAs/MDAs. Sometimes, some of my mates let the school faculty know about situations that undermine our education way before the end of rotations.

I am not sure exactly if the faculty has addressed those issues raised by my mates.

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