UCLA Masters Entry Clinical Nurse (MECN) Program

[flyingfish2u]

Is anyone applying to this program? Any feedback on this program? This is great...Masters program in 2 years instead of 3 years like most other programs. Can someone tell me what is a clinical nurse? Is that same as clincial nurse specialist?

Pre-licensure Masters Entry Clinical Nurse (MECN) Program

The UCLA School of Nursing announces a new program for graduate study beginning Fall 2006 leading to the Master of Science in Nursing (MSN) degree. The program is designed for individuals who have a baccalaureate degree in another discipline to prepare for a career in nursing. This is a two-year program. Pending approval by the California Board of Registered Nursing, graduates will be eligible to take the National Council Licensing Examination (NCLEX) to be certified as an RN after completion of the program.

The new Masters Entry Clinical Nurse (MECN) program is designed to produce masters-prepared nurse generalists with special leadership skills to function in acute care hospitals and other health care delivery systems. This exciting and innovative program will produce graduates who assume accountability for healthcare outcomes for a specific group of clients within a unit or setting through the assimilation and application of research-based information. The MECN role focuses upon the provider and manager of care at the point of care, to individuals and patients in need of health care services at all levels. As such, the graduates of this program will be prepared to implement outcomes-based practice and quality improvement in clinical settings.

After completing the MSN-MECN program, graduates are able to:

1. Select, evaluate and apply, in an inpatient setting and a variety of other settings, basic and advanced theoretical knowledge of core concepts including advanced leadership and health care systems concepts to the nursing process in order to deliver health care to clients from diverse cultural backgrounds (Competencies: Critical thinking; Cultural competence);
   
2. Analyze health problems at a unit, aggregate (community) and systems level, and develop nursing interventions that balance the health needs at the unit and cohort levels (Competencies: Therapeutic nursing intervention, Critical thinking, Ethical conduct, Cultural competence).
   
3. Demonstrate effective communication and collaboration skills with clients, research participants, other health professionals, colleagues, and policy makers (Competencies: Communication skills; Cultural competence)
   
4. Evaluate existing nursing and health care systems research, apply findings to advance nursing practice, and participate in the development of new knowledge (Competencies: Research activity; Critical thinking);
   
5. Demonstrate leadership and system skills and critical thinking which contribute to the effectiveness and efficiency of nursing and health care (Competencies: Professional role development; Critical thinking);
   
6. Practice hospital- and community-based nursing guided by the principles of ethics and law. (Competencies: Ethical conduct);
   
7. Participate in professional and community organizations and/or interest groups relevant to health care delivery and modify nursing standards and practices in keeping with current trends (Competencies: Professional role development).

[weirdowack]

From what I understand, the program provides a MSN degree and eligibility to take the the NCLEX to be certified as an RN after the program. MECN (Masters Entry Clinical Nurse) is just what they are calling the program, not the degree.

[kim00mik]

Yes. It's as weirdowack says -- it's just another MSN. The only difference from the existing MSNs is that this is NOT an advance degree, whereas the traditional MSN degrees have specialties of CNS or NP.

Supposedly, this type of program is great for people who are doing a career change into nursing and already have BA/BS in something else. A word of caution though -- I believe that you cannot have two MSN degrees. So, if you complete one for generalist, you will have to find a certificate program for NP or CNS, if that's your ultimate goal.

I believe calstate fullerton and uc irvine are all joining the trend to produce master's prepared entry-level nurses.

[philiptu]

well, I applied it, in a hurry. :-P I didn't plan it at all, then i saw the program and it got a last deadline. so i started to prepare all the stuffs they need at March and then sent them out right b4 the deadline. don't expect 2 much though. got no news

[jzprple]

I think it's great! I'm not surprised to see UCLA come up with this since Cal State Long Beach started an accelerated BSN program a year ago and the only school in this market in LA was Mt. St. Mary's. What all of you naysayers have to realize is that in California there is somewhat of a shortage. And when you have 16 million people living in a city, there are a lot of them w/ BA/BS degrees in other fields who are disillusioned with their current jobs and wanting to branch into a career where they can make some money while doing a good thing. Schools on the West coast are finally starting to get the picture by adding these accelerated programs which will help produce new nurses quickly. I did an accelerated program in the midwest b/c it has been around for 30 years and I didn't want to mess with the newer program at CSULB but I would have loved to have stayed in LA to finish nursing school. I say investigate and visit the UCLA to hear their spiel. Keep an open mind. Be really really prepared to study you butt off and not have a life for the 2 years that you're in the program. Have a great time and realize you will look back in 2 years and be blown away by all that you now can do! Good luck!

[elkpark]

Schools on the West coast are finally starting to get the picture by adding these accelerated programs which will help produce new nurses quickly.

But that's what we (the experienced nurses here) are questioning -- a 36-month MSN program is not producing new nurses "quickly," and it's only preparing you to be a somewhat-glorified bedside nurse. If someone already has a BA/BS in something else and would be able to skip/transfer most of the pre-reqs and general ed courses, you could complete an ADN or BSN and be a licensed, practicing RN in less time than that (and for a lot less $$$, I'm sure!!)

I agree (as usual :)) with llg -- I think these new "clinical leader" and "MSN clinical nurse" degrees are little more than a gimmick, and much of the national nursing "leadership" seems to have gone 'round the bend in the last several years (and not only on this issue!) Many of these new, different degree programs seemed designed more to serve the needs of the particular university' college of nursing than to serve the needs of students and the larger nursing community (not to mention the public ... )

I'm not aware of there being any great market demand for Master's-prepared bedside nurses; these graduates may have a v. hard time explaining to potential employers why they have more to offer than an ADN- or BSN-prepared new graduate, AND I'm sure hospitals and other agencies, even if they are willing to hire this "new animal," would not see any reason at all why they should pay any more than they would for a new ADN or BSN grad (since they will all be doing the same job). And, as another poster mentioned, if you decide at a later date that you do want to move into an advanced practice role (the usual point of getting an MSN, up until now), you'll have to return to school and complete (the equivalent of) most of another Master's degree.

[kim00mik]

anyone else hear from UCLA MECN yet?

[shimi]

Physical Therapists and Pharmacists have raised their entry levels to advanced degrees. I hear there is a movement to make a Masters degree the entry level for all of nursing...they are attempting to raise the status/ prestige of the whole profession.

I looked at the UCLA website and if you look at the BSN program it says:

After completing the B.S. program, graduates are able to:

-Select, evaluate and apply, in hospital- and a variety of other settings, basic and advanced theoretical knowledge of core concepts including advanced leadership and health care systems concepts to the nursing process in order to deliver health care to clients from diverse cultural backgrounds.

-Analyze health problems at a unit, aggregate (community) and systems level, and develop nursing interventions that balance the health needs at the unit and cohort levels.

-Demonstrate effective communication and collaboration skills with clients, research participants, other health professionals, colleagues, and policy makers.

-Evaluate existing nursing and health care systems research, apply findings to advance nursing practice, and participate in the development of new knowledge.

-Demonstrate leadership and system skills and critical thinking, which contribute to the effectiveness and efficiency of nursing and health care.

-Practice hospital- and community-based nursing based on the principles of ethics and law.

-Participate in professional and community organizations and/or interest groups relevant to health care delivery and modify nursing standards and practices in keeping with current trends.

Sound familiar? Its the exact same thing for the MSN program.

If you get a diploma from a community college, a BSN or do a Masters entry program with no specialty..you still all take the same NCLEX exam and you will have the same RN title. I work at UCLA, and regardless of your education (ADN, BSN, MSN)..if you're a new grad, you're all paid the same, trained the same, treated the same.

Unless you have a clear and firm goal in what you want to attain in your nursing career, I wouldn't recommend a master entry program. I know UCSF has a program for Master's Entry where it includes an Advanced Practiced degree (NP or CNS). UCLA Master's entry program doesn't seem to offer this though.

[monnelise]

llg,

unfortunately i think you are correct. Its all marketing. Is the shortage so bad that they will do anything to attract people from other career areas into their field? I know Ive looked and lusted after these entry programs. With a degree already who wants to think about going back to school for years and years, and pay more $ on top of already established student loans.

But thankfully there are ways around this. Just as an example, Chico State (my wonderful school- but not for nursing) offers distance education for the ADN who want to be BSN, or the BSN who want to be MSN. This little convenience has really put my mind at ease as far as deciding the BEST WAY to becoming a nurse. IT Doesn't Freekin matter anymore. I can take the traditional route if thats all that is available to me in my area because there will always be a convenient way to continue my education. I love that thought. Arent distance programs (for MSN) on the rise? Is there a stigma? I wish more schools had this option because i dont live in the chico area anymore. hmm, that might have to change.

[llg, PhD, RN]

llg,

unfortunately i think you are correct. Its all marketing. Is the shortage so bad that they will do anything to attract people from other career areas into their field? .

Sometimes, I wish I weren't right about this issue. School are inventing new programs with fancy titles to attract students and keep their schools financially successful. Administrators and faculty members find it easier to sell a new program than to improve their traditional ones. They also get more opportunities to get grant funding, invitations to speak at conferences, and publish more articles with a "new fancy program" than with doing a good job with the old ones.

As elkpark and others have said, when you graduate as a new nurse -- you will be qualified to begin employment as a beginner-level staff nurse regardless of your initial degree. Almost all new graduates have to go through that transition from student to staff nurse before being considered for any type of advanced role or leadership position. To get an advanced role or leadership position, you will need either lots of experience and/or an advanced degree that provides some specialty training.

That's the reality of the job market -- and that job market is unlikely to change much in the near future because that system makes sense to most people. While you might be able to find a few exceptions here and there, the majority of nurses will have to follow that path. Most people who get a 3-year MSN that only prepares them as a generalist will get their first jobs after school as a staff nurse. Then they will have to find a way to move into any specialty or advanced positions based on years of experience and/or further education. Why not just get a BSN and then earn an MSN while working as a staff nurse and getting tuition reimbursement from your employer?

Online BSN and MSN options are proliferating on an almost daily basis. I doubt they will be going away.

llg

[odamae]

I believe it is a pathway into the field for people with divergent backgrounds and who have earned at least a bachelors. Rather than pursue another bachelors, these kinds of programs allow college grads to get a nursing degree while also feeling they are getting a masters degree.

I spoke with someone who has a PhD in nursing at UCLA- he said they are not sure how the MECN program will fare in the longterm being it is a new concept- it has not been around more than 10 years in the US. He also said not everyone agrees in academic nursing about allowing people with degrees in engineering, history, computer sciences, etc. this way of obtaining a master's level nursing degree with no nursing background.

I believe MECN grads should be realistic- when they graduate, they need to pay their dues just like any newly minted nursing student. I understand that after a few years as a staff nurse, MECN grads (and really any BSN) can pursue advanced degrees/training if they so desire.

[hanaya]

This is what we are trying to tell you, you will be on par with the BSNs on the unit. You are not getting specialist training, but will be a generalist. Please look at what they have posted about the program. You will not be at the same level of the nurse practitioner or the clincal nurse specialist.

You will not be able to do anymoer until you get any experience under your belt, and again, there will not be advancement into a an advanced clincial role, just thru management. and they were even unable to tell you how this role or training will differ from the BSN, they can't. It is essentially the same.

How can you be a specialist without generalist training first? You can't.

If your goal is CNS, or the NP, then this is definitely not the route that you should choose.

So if we will be attending the MECN program at UCLA and we want to be a CNS or a NP, we have to go through extra schooling? If so, what kind of schooling would we go through. I've seen RN to BSN programs and BSN to MS in Nursing programs. Isn't a MSN what a Masters in Nursing is? What other programs do MECN graduates need to go through if they want to be a NP or CNS?

[elkpark]

So if we will be attending the MECN program at UCLA and we want to be a CNS or a NP, we have to go through extra schooling? If so, what kind of schooling would we go through. I've seen RN to BSN programs and BSN to MS in Nursing programs. Isn't a MSN what a Masters in Nursing is? What other programs do MECN graduates need to go through if they want to be a NP or CNS?

All MSN degrees are not interchangeable -- in order to be licensed/certified in one of the advanced practice roles (NP, CNS, CNM, CRNA) you must complete a graduate program (MSN or, becoming more common, a DNP (doctoral degree)) with a specialization in the particular advanced practice role. For a graduate of a generalist MSN program (like the UCLA degree being discussed here) to become an NP, CNS, CNM, or CRNA, one would have to return to school and complete a post-Master's certificate with an NP, CNS, CNM, or CRNA specialization -- that is, most of another MSN (all of an NP, CNS, etc., Master's program except the few core courses that are consistent across all MSN programs and which you would not be required to repeat). This particular UCLA degree prepares you to be an entry-level, basic RN, like ADN or BSN graduates -- it does not prepare you for any of the advanced practice roles.