U of A after-degree vs Grant Mac 4 year - any advice?

flyingchange · Aug 27, 2011

No judgement here! I will be nearly 30 when I graduate.

If you search the threads here you will see some opinions on both programs. In a nutshell I have heard only good things about Grant MacEwan's lecture-based program, and only bad things about the U of A "collaborative based learning" after degree. My friend was in the after degree program and said it has a 50% dropout rate. She dropped out as well and now hates everything about nursing. I guess there's something to be said for U of A being the only school that educates nurses with CBL. She said the toughest part of the program was that it was just straight nursing courses, back to back to back (nursing courses can be their own special kind of nightmare). However I also know some people who have completed the U of A program and one of them was just hired fulltime into the NICU as a new grad.

Your mileage may vary - either program will prepare you for nursing. U of A will do it in half the time. Grant Mac may offer you advanced transfer credit for your previous degree. GMU has excellent facilities, but the U will be relocating to the Edmonton Clinic and may have advantages that way. Good luck to you :)

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Aug 27, 2011

In a nutshell I have heard only good things about Grant MacEwan's lecture-based program, and only bad things about the U of A "collaborative based learning" after degree. My friend was in the after degree program and said it has a 50% dropout rate. She dropped out as well and now hates everything about nursing. I guess there's something to be said for U of A being the only school that educates nurses with CBL.

It's actually context-based learning. I've heard many not-so-good comments about it over the years. A coworker who did the post-basic baccalaureate called it the biggest farce she'd ever experienced. But educators think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. The U of A faculty's opinion is here: http://www.nursing.ualberta.ca/Undergraduate/TeachingMethods.aspx while you can read a study abstract on its effectiveness here: http://www.ugc.edu.hk/tlqpr01/site/abstracts/070_tiwari3.htm and an old thread from allnurses here: https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-student/context-based-learning-5830-page2.html

My thoughts on this topic tend to be negative. I've preceptored new grads who haven't got a hot clue about 90% of the basics, like the Five Rights of Medication Administration, and have watched others fail to provide basic nursing care for their patients. I feel that it's a band-aid measure to accommodate for faculty shortages. Nursing faculty are required to have advanced degrees in nursing and are paid far less than those working in direct care, so there are fewer and fewer of them as time goes by. So in order for schools to continue to enroll new students they've concocted this teach-yourself-to-be-a-nurse "educational model". But that's just my opinion.

Mrs_Mack · Aug 27, 2011

I think the After Degree program is largely what you make of it. I think there are ups and downs in any program and this one is no exception; however for me, being done that much faster makes it 100% worth it. I am working through the program right now and while its definitely a ton of work I have no plans to discontinue. I've also heard through the grapevine that there is supposedly a 50% dropout but i haven't noticed it being anywhere near that high since I started. They've made a bunch of changes to the program over the last few years so that could be one factor.

As for CBL, it's not all 'teach yourself'. There are lectures designed to complement self-taught seminars in which you work with a tutor and your group to research topics related to real life scenarios. To be honest, I was really surprised at the number of people in my groups who have never worked in teams. They find it really difficult to have to share the workload and rely on other students to get all the information they need. One thing that CBL most definitely helps you achieve is the ability to work with a large group of people, all with differing opinions and personalities, to accomplish a common goal. This ability will definitely be reflected later in the workplace.

Hope that helps, and good luck with whatever program you choose :)

SurroDoula · Aug 27, 2011

Well, I can't really comment about the after degree program since that wasn't an option for me. I am starting my second year at Grant MacEwan, so I can give you some info about that. I find the classes are excellent, and the pace is good for me. My only complaint is that the administration is a pain - getting through the admissions process was stressful, and a recent change in how we register for classes created a lot of headaches for several of my classmates. I chose to go to MacEwan because my husband took a different program through the U of A that had some CLB components to it - while it worked well for him, I knew it wouldn't be for me. I also spoke to several nurses about which program seems to have the better prepared graduates, and was told by most to go to MacEwan.

Also, don't worry about your age - I'm turning 36 soon, and although I'm in the minority as far as age goes, I'm certainly not the only one to wait many years before going back!

molls · Aug 27, 2011

Thank you so much all of you for your insight. It is refreshing to hear that 30 is not too old, LOL!!

fitbie · Sep 3, 2011

I am currently in the U of A AD program, and I think that people are making it out to be way worse than it is. It is by no means perfect, but certainly not the worst. The main issue seems to be CBL it seems, I have felt that it's not too bad. I like to be able to learn in new and different ways rather than simply being lectured at all day everyday. My clinical tutors have been very helpful and supportive. Neither have we been 'babied' or 'spoonfed', we have been treated the same as other nurses, although they are there to help if i have needed them.

is a very intense program though, the first year can be a bit overwhelming and I know a few people who have dropped out. Some did so, without even giving the program a proper chance, some dropped out even before their first hospital clinical experience claiming they don't like 'nursing'. Well how do you know that you don't like nursing if you haven't even tried it yet?

The faculty who teach the program are a piece of work in their own right. Some of the absolute worst professors I have seen in my four years because of their stuck up attitudes, but people who know really their stuff.

The program is constantly being improved and they do listen to suggestions from students.

I am almost 30 as well like you and I have gotten through this program while being a mother to children, so it's not as impossible as people are making it out to be.

As for Grant Mac, no offence to grant mac students, but in the real world degrees from an actual established university are usually worth more than those from new a newly minted 'college' posing as a university. Just my two cents.

Fiona59 · Sep 3, 2011

I am currently in the U of A AD program, and I think that people are making it out to be way worse than it is. It is by no means perfect, but certainly not the worst. The main issue seems to be CBL it seems, I have felt that it's not too bad. I like to be able to learn in new and different ways rather than simply being lectured at all day everyday. My clinical tutors have been very helpful and supportive. Neither have we been 'babied' or 'spoonfed', we have been treated the same as other nurses, although they are there to help if i have needed them.
is a very intense program though, the first year can be a bit overwhelming and I know a few people who have dropped out. Some did so, without even giving the program a proper chance, some dropped out even before their first hospital clinical experience claiming they don't like 'nursing'. Well how do you know that you don't like nursing if you haven't even tried it yet?
The faculty who teach the program are a piece of work in their own right. Some of the absolute worst professors I have seen in my four years because of their stuck up attitudes, but people who know really their stuff.
The program is constantly being improved and they do listen to suggestions from students.
I am almost 30 as well like you and I have gotten through this program while being a mother to children, so it's not as impossible as people are making it out to be.
As for Grant Mac, no offence to grant mac students, but in the real world degrees from an actual established university are usually worth more than those from new a newly minted 'college' posing as a university. Just my two cents.

Hate to break your bubble, but where you obtained your education is not the be all and end all of getting hired. It's did you pass your CRNE on the first attempt that employers want to know.

If anything, judging on what the UofA has turned out in the last couple of years, it's a bit of a detriment to getting hired. All the new hires on my unit have been GMU grads.

Your last paragraph illustrates everything that working nurses loathe about the U.

eggnoodles · Nov 16, 2011

I am currently finishing the UofA After-Degree program in Edmonton and have many friends who have graduated recently as well as a few years ago. BE AWARE - Regardless of your experience throughout the program, many nurses and staff on most units have a bad impression of the After-Degree nurses from UofA. Having worked in several clinical placements, as well as being a float nursing aide, the nurses and staff can easily differentiate whether you are a Grant Mac nursing student, or UofA student. Recent grads have told me that nursing managers will easily hire a Grant Mac nursing student over a UofA After Degree student, otherwise you will have to prove yourself a lot.

The drop out rate is very high; the faculty is very disorganized and sometimes it is like pulling teeth trying to get information. As for the Context-Based Learning, you will spend ample amounts of time (between 6-8 hours a week) sitting in a classroom seminar group of 12 students, discussing "research" that is irrelevant to nursing care or the course, and will no way prepare you for exams.

Then again, it's only 2 years! As long as you are willing to sacrifice all hobbies, part-time employment, put friendships and relationships on a hold, be so stressed to the point of tears and mental breakdowns, then it will be all over!

SickofIt · Nov 19, 2011

I work with many nurses who do the CBL. They are fine graduates and given the right preceptorship at the end, the do just as well as any useless new grad (myself being one of them long ago). The issue I have with CBL is that I HATE, LOATHE and DESPISE group work. There is always one idiot that doesn't do their share, and one keener that drives you crazy with their perfectionism. I was neither in school. If I wanted to go to a party and sleep in and miss class, so be it. It was my own hide on the line. I did what I had to do, read the textbooks, showed up for clinical, but also used my newly minted adult decision making skills when it came down to going to class or not. It was easier, in my mind, to just read the chapters and skip the lecture if I felt like it and not worry about letting my group down. It depends on your personality, really. But I know I would have hated CBL.

SickofIt · Nov 19, 2011

I should add, I was writing that response tongue in cheek, after a few glasses of wine. Excuse the spelling, and know that I actually enjoy all of the new grads on our unit...but let's face it....many of us who survived the BScN program really had no clue what we were doing when we started working "in real life." I would have a really hard time going back to school after working for all of these years. The academics and PhD's who taught me WAYYY back when had no clue what we new nurses would be up against, and did us all a huge disservice, and I still haven't forgiven them for that.