Typical ASN VS BSN questions

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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As long as I can remember I have been told that a ASN and BSN as new nurses are the exact same. This didn't make sense to me as the BSN goes to school for two more years, they have to learn something in those years. So I compared the three 4 year programs I am looking to transfer to with my community colleges 2 year program, and now it makes even less sense that a ASN and a BSN are treated the same. Not only does the ASN miss out on an A+P class, a upper level math class, a chemistry class, a nutrition class, 2 psych classes, a sociology course (and a bunch of other classes that don't seem to revelent to nursing (like humanities, electives and english) but the ASN also misses out on alot of Upperlevel nursing courses and clinicals as some of the classes that are in a BSN nursing program have to be obmitted to allow the 2 year program to intergrate its few core classes in with the nursing specific courses.

Are these classes that are missed not important to nursing, or does a two year program include them but at a faster rate?

There is no way I would persue a ASN, for one the program is actually more competive as it is cheaper and thus more people apply to it, and secondly I really want a 4 year degree from a good college, I am 25 and was in the military before deciding on nursing, and since the military is paying for my school I would like to obtain the most education I can before my money runs out.

Look I don't know where you are from, but I am an ASN nurse (returning student I obtained a BS in Finance in '03) and in Maryland I had to take ALL those courses you are talking about ASNs don't get. I had 1 year of Anatomy, Microbio, Chem, Psych 101 and human development, sociology, math and English. All of those courses were required before I could apply to my ASN program. I also call ******** on the whole ASNs don't get the "holistic view and well rounded knowledge" At least I can spell holistic.

Intersting post. The fact is that both the ADN and BSN are different, yes both sit for the same examination, but educational pathways are quite unique. Considering my BSN program, we are required to take gross anatomy, chem, path, immunology, molecular bio and surface anatomy as well as traditional courses. Nursing is striving for education and I believe it is well needed. With increase autonomy, comes decision making and a deep understanding of the body and its mechanisms. If we, nurses want to progress, we need to beef up educational standards and apply them accordingly. Nursing has attempted to initiate the BSN as entry level for quite some time. Nursing practice has changed and of course education will. We are not the only profession, dental hyg, PA, pharmacy, PT, OT, audiology and many others have embrassed this fundamental concept. Understand that thier are different pathways, and be proud that nursing has excelled and will keep progressing into a profession and no a "job".

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Specializes in home health, public health, Parrish nsg.
And my orginal question pertaining to why the program is longer when the test and boards are the only thing that matters remains. I never attacked ASN ADN w/e. I was just trying to get a better understanding on what the differences pertain to, it was a question thats all, not trying to be snobbish or dog on ADN/ASN. There is a disparity in classes and as someone who is just starting school I wanted some info on what that was all about, are the extra classes not necessary (should I just memorize them) or do they foster better understanding of the human body and make a better Nurse. Obivously some of those classes were important enough for a Mitchell to take while also getting an ASN. Apparently mitchell is just a little insecure with something and took my question as a personal attack.

I was an ASN nurse for 12 years before acquiring my BSN (I had to back up and take 2 english courses, a statistics course and intro to biology, I allready had all other courses besides the nsg) and currently working on my MSN.

As far as research goes it has been shown that when a BSN and ASN start on the floor the ASN is clinically more prepared than the BSN for at least the first 6 months then are equal before the BSN nurse begins to have better pt outcomes than the ASN nurse. Me I don't know if I agree with this, and don't believe it has been proven in my practice.

The difference that I see is that the BSN is more commonally seen as the professional (Dont yell at me, this isn't how I feel) Also, the BSN recieves more public health,leadership, management and theory classes. Both sets of nurses are taught to be holistic and both are taught to critically think. Many public health agencies prefer the BSN nurse and most facilities will pass over the ASN to promote the BSN.

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interesting post. in response to pervious posts, i don't think there's any need to be defensive about our educational choices. we all are in different stages of life and while for some an adn program makes sense, another may find that pursuing a bsn is best for them. personally i'm going for my adn. i have a four year bs degree and have all of my sciences covered including nursing research and public health. a two year degree will get me working sooner with the option for further education to be paid for by my employer, not a bad deal if you ask me! no matter what the educational background all nurses should commit themselves to lifelong learning. for some that will be pursuing further education while for others on the job learning may be best.

just a side note about how bsn nurses will be better able to use critical thinking skills. i literally laughed out loud when i read this! every nursing school is different and at mine critical thinking is stressed over and over and over.... so generalizations about adn nurses are just that, generalizations. good luck to all of you in your nursing careers, no matter what path you choose to get there!

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Specializes in Operating Room.

I don't understand people having Bachelor's degrees, and then doing 2 years associate degree programs? The only time I think it's a good option, is if you simply cannot afford a second degree option BSN program, or you can't commit the amount of time it'd take to attend those types of classes. Mitchell, you coulda brought yourself right on up to Philadelphia and went to for 11 months with your accounting degree and got your BSN. Then you wouldn't be so overly defensive with everyone else.. but.. maybe you missed the boat there.

I totally understand what the one dude is saying.. it is just simple logic. The BSN has more class time. So you learn more. On day 1, the BSN knows more than the ASN. The reason they can sit for the same test is because they are both qualified. They both know ENOUGH to be nurses. No one is taking away the ASN's ability to be a nurse. No one is saying that. We are simply saying, the BSN knows more. ON DAY 1. This is an important concept as well. A ASN with real work experience without a doubt knows more than a BSN student on day 1, or week 1. But once again, that's not the issue.

Also, if you have no desire to go for advanced practice, then there is little need to really get your BSN. The nurse that comes outta HS, takes their prereqs at a CC, and gets their ASN/RN, and loves their job on a floor... why do anything different? Why pay for more degrees and take more time, when you don't need them, or have any desire to do anything different? If you want to be a NP, or CRNA, or whatever APN you desire, then yes.. get your BSN. It'll make it much easier later down the road.

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Specializes in thinking about being a PA instead, now.

I can't find it right now, but a couple of years ago I found links to official sites with NCLEX pass rates statewide where you can compare the results. At the time, some NY and NJ community colleges had noticeably much higher pass rates than far spendier 4 year Catholic and private colleges. :grad:

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My wife who is now just two classes away from her masters in nursing say she whish she had done it differently. She went the BSN route. She is also an instructor at a local community college and recommends this to her students. Get an ANS, start working, and immediately sign up for an ASN to BSN program. It will probably take an extra year to year and a half to get the BSN, but compare that to the nurse who went the BSN route. After five years you both have BSN's but the one who got the ASN first now has three years experience and the BSN grad has one. Who do you think will get the promotion? Plus many places offer tuition reimbursement so she would have about 40,000 less in student loans if she had done it the other way. Her masters has almost been completely pay for by her employer. By the way she says she learned more in her first three months on the job than the four years of college proceeding it.

This is the way I am going to try it

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Specializes in Operating Room.

I agree with that in a way. I think if you can sit and plan out your future like that you can make that move... The thing is, some people take just as long getting thru their ASN as do the students with BSNs because of prerequisites. Some students take two years for pre reqs, then a 2 year ASN program. Some kids would do their ASN and get comfortable working and never return to school.. You also have the people that spend a year or two in a 4 year school n then realize they wanna go into nursing and they slide right in. For that student, the traditional BSN caters to them more. I'm a second degree student that had a BA in something useless, and now I'm going to get a BSN in a year. That works best for me since I decided late. I totally agree the RN-BSN is a great idea if you have that luxury.

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I am not an elitist. My reason for going for a BSN instead of ASN is really two. The ASN program is actually more competitive than the BSN programs (although this is based on acceptance rate, the local ASN has lower requirements so more can apply, and I think I will still be a good canitdate to get into ASN with my GPA), and I really want a 4 year degree. I was just suprized to see the similiarity in NCLEX scores when the BSN has so much more schooling. Guess it is all just filler, even the sciences...

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Specializes in thinking about being a PA instead, now.
My wife who is now just two classes away from her masters in nursing say she whish she had done it differently. She went the BSN route. She is also an instructor at a local community college and recommends this to her students. Get an ANS, start working, and immediately sign up for an ASN to BSN program. It will probably take an extra year to year and a half to get the BSN, but compare that to the nurse who went the BSN route. After five years you both have BSN's but the one who got the ASN first now has three years experience and the BSN grad has one. Who do you think will get the promotion? Plus many places offer tuition reimbursement so she would have about 40,000 less in student loans if she had done it the other way. Her masters has almost been completely pay for by her employer. By the way she says she learned more in her first three months on the job than the four years of college proceeding it.

This is the way I am going to try it

Yet in another thread, an ASN grad recently posted that she and her 100's of fellow new grads cannot find work to even begin to get those "three years experience" because they are only hiring BSN grads, minimum. :eek:

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Specializes in Operating Room.

I believe the nursing classes are pretty much the same. Rather you are in a BSN program or a ASN program, there's only so many ways to put in a foley. There's extra classes in a BSN that prepare you to perhaps manage, or to influence nursing in some way. There's health promotion or informatics. These classes give the student a foundation for doing something bigger in the nursing field other than just basic nursing. These things aren't on a NCLEX so it' gives no advantage on the test for the BSN students

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"yet in another thread, an asn grad recently posted that she and her 100's of fellow new grads cannot find work to even begin to get those "three years experience" because they are only hiring bsn grads, minimum. "

i will qualify that she is giving this advice to students already enrolled in a two year program, and she does recommend to immediately enroll in an asn to bsn program. by the way her first job was not in a hospital. it was 3rd shift in a nursing home. the pay was crappy and the management poor. but she got experience. worked as a contract traveling nurse for a while. then she did med surge for a while (said she gained ton of experience there). moved to ortho loved that. tried cardiac and didn't like it. now she is out of floor nursing entirely. she works corporate oc health, and loves it m-f paid holidays, mortality rate 0, cdiff 0 lol. and as i said she also teaches as adjunct faculty at the local community college on the side.

are you trying home health, nursing homes, float pool, or registry? i asked her this same question because i read all the post of asn grads not finding a job. not true she replied she just saw one of her former students at the nursing home she does clinicals at. she claims they don't hire msn's there because they can't keep them. in fact the director of nursing at this home is an lpn.

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I am assuming that you went to HCC, if so you took only 9 Nursing classes, that is 6 less than any 4 year program is required to take. Since you got an BS in accounting I am sure you are aware that is 3/5ths the education. You can't, have that large of a disparity without some gaps.
I'm sure at least some of those BSN classes are 3 credit classes. All of my ASN nursing classes (not HCC) were 7 credit classes...

Edit: oh I just noticed the required GPA of 2.25 to get into HCC's nursing program, do we really want nurses that only learned 72.5% of what they needed to know at a community college...

Well as you mentioned in your first post, the ASN programs are often very competitive, and I can only speak for my ASN program there is no way anyone is getting in with less than a 3.0, most probably had 3.5 or better.

Your #1 mistake is in assuming all BSN's require one set of courses and all ASN's require another. They all vary WIDELY in their requirements, and lumping together all the programs of each type degree, as far as core requirements/prereqs, is often like lumping in apples and oranges.

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