TN Nurses Against Proposed Bill (SB 0009) for "Certified Medication Technicians"

morte, LPN, LVN · May 12, 2009

I am not a nurse- yet. Trying to get into school now. My Father-in-Law is a Rep. in the House (has been for 20 years...) I'll have to ask him about this one...

oooooo, good.....i would be doing a little more than ASKING....LOL............one of my favorit sayings is follow the money.....this bill i am sure, has the backing of the LTC asso. in your state.....which has plenty of money to lobby for this bill, but not enough to pay for a nurse....

martysmiles · May 12, 2009

Guys, this is soo scary to me. I can't even think about the liability of it all. I much rather give my meds and know my patients have received what there suppose to get and chart my actions than wonder if everything was done. I value and respect my CNA's and have taught classes. I just disagree that they have all the knowledge they need in a 40 hour class. How many hours in pharmocology did we receive, then in clinicals. It just bothers me that people are so casual about this subject.

midlife_nurse · May 21, 2009

[color=#334455][color=#334455]i just wrote to my representatives; here is the text:

"i am writing to urge you not to pass this legislation designating "medication technicians who can administer certain medications in nursing homes under the supervision of licensed nurses."

i am a nurse who has worked in long-term care, and i believe that it is easier and safer for the nurse to pass the medications herself, rather than to rely on the word of another employee that the medications have been passed.

i believe that this legislation provides no benefit to nursing home patients or to nursing home nurses, and the fiscal gain proposed (increase state revenue - $545,500 increase) in the form of "licenses" for these personnel does not outweigh the risk to patients. nursing home staff are already some of the lowest-paid nurses in the profession, and subdividing nursing jobs by creating yet another lower-paying tier of health provider (in addition to patient-care technicians and nurses' aides) is a further downward trend that will not help attract our best and brightest to care for our elderly and infirm.

please talk to the nursing home staff, patients and their families, not just nursing home administration, before you consider passing this bill."

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i just saw that i typed "easier to pass the medications herself"... sorry murses!

:mnnnrsngrk:

Columnist · May 21, 2009

The bill has already passed in the Senate and now has to go through the House. I would focus your efforts on letters to the Representatives. It has to pass in both the House and the Senate in order to become a law.

Columnist · May 21, 2009

It has been placed on the calendar for the Finance, Ways & Means Committee for 05/27/2009

Here are the members of that committee that you should contact.

Committee Officers

Craig Fitzhugh, Chair
Charles Sargent, Vice-Chair
Johnny Shaw, Secretary

Members

C-DIFF PHIL RN · May 22, 2009

well here in mississippi it would save the hospitals millions in payed wages they would normally pay nurses. so one has to think that the hospital association would be behind it all the way to the bank ( or state senators bank more like it).

forpath · May 22, 2009

Guys, this is soo scary to me. I can't even think about the liability of it all. I much rather give my meds and know my patients have received what there suppose to get and chart my actions than wonder if everything was done. I value and respect my CNA's and have taught classes. I just disagree that they have all the knowledge they need in a 40 hour class. How many hours in pharmocology did we receive, then in clinicals. It just bothers me that people are so casual about this subject.

The day that my aides start passing meds in my nursing home is the day I resign as the DON. I will not put my license on the line like that. My aides are wonderful at what they do, but I completely disagree with this bill.

I didn't go to nursing school to have to end up competing with a nursing assistant for a job when the NA works for less money and will get hired before I do. Never support this stuff. Comes to my state, I'll be hanging it up if it affects my career in any way. I already get treated like I'm less than a nursing assistant anyway, so I'm half way out the door whether I can afford it or not. Oh retirement, then death, come quickly!

I cringe at the thought of "medication aides", and I will never work with one if I can help it, UNLESS the state makes them LICENSED personnel so that they are fully responsible for their own actions.
Also, how much can this medication aide really know about pharmacology after an 8 or 16-hour course? The most extensive pharm course I have heard of for med aides was 40 hours. Even 40 hours is no comparison to the amount of pharmacology LPN's have to go through, between writing out dozens of drug cards, memorizing actions, classifications, side effects, pt teaching etc for dozens of drugs, passing meds and observing response for every pt in every clinical rotation for a year. Sorry, 40 hours just isn't going to cut it.

Has there ever been a study that shows that there are worse patient outcomes when a CNA dispenses meds compared to when a nurse does it? And why should the nursing profession feel entitled to influence another profession and say what is and what isn't within the other profession's scope of practice? In this case, the CNA profession. It just seems so arrogant and I know it is just because of money. When a CNA dispenses meds, she is practicing nurse assistancy, but when a nurse dispenses the same meds, it is nursing. They are completely different things. And so what if nurses had more pharmacology than CNAs in school? I can think of like 4 anecdotal experiences where a CNA is a genius and the nurse under whom she worked was a total idiot. Maybe one doesn't need to go through all the years of nursing school to do what a nurse does. Maybe one can do it all with a CNA in much less time, with fewer tests and less stress.

In case you all cannot tell, I am being horribly sarcastic and irreverent. It just struck me as ironic that if one were to replace CNA and medication aid with "DNP" and nurse with "physician" in this discussion, many of you would be on the other side of the argument.

APRN., DNP, RN, APRN, NP · May 22, 2009

When a Dr. makes a medication mistake - there's a WHOLE lot riding on the line. Took a LOONG time and effort to get that license. Makes one very reverent of one's own tush on the line. Grandma's attorney is definitely going to love taking this license to court.

When a Nurse makes a medication mistake - there's a WHOLE lot riding on the line. Took a loong time and effort to get that license. Makes one very reverent of one's own tush on the line. Grandma's attorney is definitely going to take this license to court.

When a medication aide makes a medication mistake - ???? .........

They may still be very reverent of one's own tush on the line - but do you REeeeALLLYY think that Grandma's attorney is going to ONLY take this 'certification' to court? Nawww.....there's a nurse out there with a "LICENSE" that's going to be named in that lawsuit too.

It behooves one to know the difference between responsibility and accountability.

The medication aide is 'responsible' to pass the correct med to the correct patient and follow all the rights of correct medication administration. However, the accountability does not rest with the medication aide because the med aide would never be able to do what they do without a nurse involved.

The nurse involved is 'accountable' as the patient advocate and is duly licensed to ensure a therapuetic medication regimen is followed, as well as those 'tasks' such as medication administration are being 'delegated' to appropriate personnel.

In other words, the proverbial buck does not stop with the med aide.

Patient advocates should work together to ensure that the best educated people are put into positions to provide the best patient care.

I believe the gist of the argument is where does one draw the line in the sand between not being educated enough to pass meds, and having more than enough education to pass meds.....SAFELY!!!!!

It is shameful to think that the equivalent of one regular full time work week - a mere 40 hours - is plenty of time to be fully accountable for performing a safe medication pass.

Put another way - if you took someone off the street today and put them through a 40 hour med pass class, they could be giving your grandpa his heart medication next week.....

TN Student · May 30, 2009

Do you think a Student's opinion would "hold water?"

Where do I write to?

JPM

imgonnabeanurse · Jun 22, 2009

that's very scary as i'm a new LPN passed boards last month and i am currently working full time in LTC I see how easy it would be to make a med error and to think a nursing assistant passing meds someone is going to get hurt or worse.

Columnist · Jun 22, 2009

Unfortunately, this bill passed in the House and the Senate and was signed into law by the Governor on June 11. Although the amendment to the bill "looks" pretty good, only time will tell. It really concerns me.

Click here to view the amendment.

fwardlaw147 · Jun 25, 2009

As a CNA, I am not certain the two arguments can be equated. I grew up in a state where medication aides were used. I was one. Medication aides are useful in home care or assisted living settings. However, I cannot imagine using a medication aid in a LTC, SKilled, or even hospital setting. The orders and patients' conditions can change too rapidly for a CNA/Med Aide with 25 to 30 high acuity patients to properly do the job. 40 hours of Med training can not compare to my 5 weeks of CNA patient care training which includes some assessment skills. Additionally, 40 hours of med training definitely does not compare to my LPN training. (I won't even go there with RN training.)

In the DNP vs Physician argument, you have a doctor with 4 years of medical education versus a DNP who probably has over ten years of high specialized training in the field prior to completion of training. How many does a doctor have? I think that would be none, unless you count the last two years of their 4-year program. There was a time when MDs refused to accept ODs. I think DNPs will reach their rightful spot in healthcare too. In the meantime comparing the Nurse vs Med Tech and the DNP versus MD arguments is like comparing apples to oranges.

Respectfully, the two arguments are not the same.

Has there ever been a study that shows that there are worse patient outcomes when a CNA dispenses meds compared to when a nurse does it? And why should the nursing profession feel entitled to influence another profession and say what is and what isn't within the other profession's scope of practice? In this case, the CNA profession. It just seems so arrogant and I know it is just because of money. When a CNA dispenses meds, she is practicing nurse assistancy, but when a nurse dispenses the same meds, it is nursing. They are completely different things. And so what if nurses had more pharmacology than CNAs in school? I can think of like 4 anecdotal experiences where a CNA is a genius and the nurse under whom she worked was a total idiot. Maybe one doesn't need to go through all the years of nursing school to do what a nurse does. Maybe one can do it all with a CNA in much less time, with fewer tests and less stress.
In case you all cannot tell, I am being horribly sarcastic and irreverent. It just struck me as ironic that if one were to replace CNA and medication aid with "DNP" and nurse with "physician" in this discussion, many of you would be on the other side of the argument.