The reference game...how do you play it?

Yes, not only are they being unreasonable but unrealistic. Most employers and their HR dept. have a policy about who can and who can not give out references. It's a legal thing. No one wants to get sued for giving out bad references and since you must treat all employees fairly and equally giving out a reference for one employee (because it would be good) and not giving out a reference for another employee (because it would be bad) would not be treating employees equally.

I would suggest you inform the potential employer that your former employer has a policy that only HR can give out references (I assume they have such a policy). If they can't accept this I would be concerned about what other legal issues they might be trying to skirt.

Questions....are you applying to a hospital or a small business (that might not know the rules)? And who is actually requesting this information....HR or some manager type?

gomer writes: "Most employers and their HR dept. have a policy about who can and who can not give out references. It's a legal thing. No one wants to get sued for giving out bad references and since you must treat all employees fairly and equally giving out a reference for one employee (because it would be good) and not giving out a reference for another employee (because it would be bad) would not be treating employees equally."

And I would only add: any competent, professional organization knows this, as well as the several other reasons why it is not done.

(Doesn't say much for your prospective employer, does it?)

mattsmom........I am having the same situation with one travel company who wants a supervisors name. They are not opposed to interviewing peers as personal references, but they need a reference from someone in a supervisory position.

Since I resigned from my last job based on the nurse manager creating a hostile environment for me to continue working in, defaming my character, and total disregard for the hard labor I provided on that unit, she caused me to lose total respect for her personally and professionally. Therefore, I do NOT want her blabbing lies about me to potential employers. All of my other references were "A-1" references. They called HR and they could only give out dates of employment to acknowledge that I worked there. They KNOW I have just cause to file a civil suit against said nurse manager, so they are being very hush-hush about the true reason I resigned. That hospital would NOT want anyone to know they lost a good nurse due to the negative accusatory behavior of one of their nurse managers.

I have already told that particular travel nurse agency why I resigned. I tell the truth. The story does NOT change because it is the 100% truth of why I felt the wise thing to do was resign. And I'm NEVER changing my story. I have NOTHING to hide. She on the other hand......KNOWS she was wrong.

If that travel agency won't allow me to travel with them due to my former place of employment denying them any details, I just won't travel with them. I really don't want to have to take that woman to court. It's really not in me to do to another person. We are not blood related, but because Jesus forgives me my sins, I must forgive her as required of me as a believer in Christ. Soooooo...THAT is my only reason for not having taken her to court. She will get hers. What goes around always comes back around full force when one least expects it. So, I chose to move on and call it a day........a terrible day in the latter part of 2003.

I wouldn't be looking for a job if it weren't for that nurse manager. Yet, I am the one unemployed while she continues to work when she is the one who should have been disciplined by her superiors for what she did to me. When I pray, I pray that no other nurse will be subject to her abuse, and that somehow she will come to a point in her life where she will realize the error of her ways where this nurse is concerned...and any others she has wronged.

You have supported my suspicions....the DON is asking for these references and I've felt uncomfortable (probably for very good reason.)

Call this a lesson learned ....I will assemble letters of reference for future use and save my evals, etc so as not to be caught off guard again.

I am in good standing at my current facility but I sense I have made them uncomfortable with this request...not what I want to do....

One good thing? My current boss caught wind I might be leaving and has offered me a raise...but I'm still feeling a bit unprepared for how this has played out.

Live and learn I guess.

Good luck Renee....can you ask someone else you worked with for a reference? Hope it works out for you.

It's nice when others can validate our intuition and "gut feeling" about things. Good Luck!

-HBS

"Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice"

Sidney Freedman, Clinical Psychiatrist - M.A.S.H 4077

(a fictional character but wise nonetheless)

http://www.mash4077.co.uk/quotes.html

http://www.mash4077.co.uk/other.html

:)

"I will assemble letters of reference for future use and save my evals, etc so as not to be caught off guard again."

I have posted a similar answer before, but it has been a while, so: A few years ago I hired an online company to pretend to be a prospective employer and contact several of my former employers for references, in order to see what happens when a REAL prospective employer does so. It was a real eye-opener.

First of all, out of about a dozen former employers, MOST of them either had no records at all that were more than 3 years old (!) on former employees, so couldn't even verify that I (or anyone else) had worked there; or could/would give ONLY dates of employment--NO other information at all.

Secondly, with the rapid turnover of nurses (annual rate about 26%-55% right now, depending on how you compute it) and various organizational policies, this company was not able to speak on the telephone with any former supervisor or even request written responses from them at ANY of these employers. These companies pay their present employees to work for THEM, not to spend company time answering questions from OTHER companies.

Third, the reference-checking company I hired told me this was simply "par for the course" for the past several years, because so many companies had:

1) farmed out their HR departments to private companies who simply did not have the information,

2) realized that they made NO profit from providing this information to prospective employers, so stopped doing it,

3) had been fined by governmental agencies and/or lost "wrongful termination" and/or defamation lawsuits, and

4) had nothing to gain and a lot to lose by providing this information.

This is the way business is done these days (and I shouldn't have been surprised, since this is the way healthcare is done as well) and ANY professional organization should be well aware of that.

So, I phoned three former supervisors who I like and who like me, and asked them to provide me with a nice letter "to whom it may concern," as well as to respond to phone calls from future prospective employers. In turn, I photocopied these letters and provide them after interviews when references are requested, and use their names and phone numbers when this information is requested BUT ONLY when the job looks like one I would like to do AND when it appears that I have a good chance of getting it. Otherwise, I leave these lines on applications blank. In other words, I don't deluge these people with phone calls and requests from information from large numbers of prospective employers. I also call or email them when I am particularly interested in a particular job, to let them know what I am doing these days, say hi, and let them know that a certain company will probably be contacting them.

That is the way "the game" is played these days, to the best of my knowledge, since that was the original question on this thread. We're not in Kansas anymore.

Originally posted by sjoe

" A few years ago I hired an online company to pretend to be be a prospective employer and contact several of my former employers for references, in order to see what happens when a REAL prospective employer does so. It was a real eye-opener.

Very smart SJOE! Having been with only one organization for the past 23 years your thread was a very interesting read indeed.

-HBS

Yes it certainly was an eye opener...thanks for the great info!