The crowd was there to show support for SB 840

DarrenWright · Jun 15, 2007

The days of working hard and pulling yourself up by the bootstraps are not over; they will never be over, and people will be able to do so as long as they have the constitution to commit to it. There is a population, however, that would like to take away any motivation for people to..."
:monkeydance:
O.K., let's go there. What about the thousands of qualified applicants who are turned away from nursing schools every year? The number of nurses the pundits say we'll need by 2010 is surpassed by the number of qualified (have all the prerequisites) pre-professional students who are turned away due to lack of classroom space and instructors. What kind of "constitution" does it take to subsist on minimum wages for years, while you stand in line to step into those "boots?" How do you pay back the loans while working at a minimum wage job, pay for housing and transportation and food; not to mention the fact that 60% of working people don't have insurance and can't afford it, or the co-pays and deductibles if it is offered. What kind of "constitution" is required to make that choice, which, considering Maslow's Heirarchy of needs, isn't a choice at all? As a nurse you should know the answer to that!
So then we cut the "bootstraps" off by taking away the motivation. Students who might have considered nursing as a career give up because why go to school for two or three years taking chemistry, biology, microbiology, nutrition, psychology and pharmacology when you know there's another two to three year wait for another two to three year curriculum that will prepare you to be a nurse? Surely, such students have demonstrated the commitment you speak of; the point being that this government has ceased to be accountable and responsive to the electorate. People don't believe their vote counts as reflected by the low turnout at the polls. Broken promises, broken dreams, abandoned responsibility for ensuring that the opportunity is there to provide for the common good.
Back to health care. Students are usually "covered" for health care through student health services by fees paid during enrollment. So, what then, when they leave school because the boots and the bootstraps are gone? Health is the asset every one needs to go to work, go to school, and provide for her/himself and others who are dependent on them. It's not every man/woman for him/herself in this country. We're all in the same boat. Hooray, you got your teeth fixed and "chose" not to have insurance. Pride goeth before the fall!
Here's a story about an 18 year old in peds ICU in a coma; been there for a couple weeks, post wisdom tooth extraction. It festered for a week post extraction. He was turned out of an ER with an RX for pain and p.o. antibiotics, lethargic and unable to walk with a steady gate. Instructions to come back, if it "got worse." He did, 911 in an ambulance the next day, s/p seizures and respiratory arrest. Intracranial abcess and hemorrhage. His family will be bankrupted by the bills. Personal responsibility, sure, but we have an egalitarian responsibility to insure that the tragedy of illness and injury isn't compounded by financial ruin? Very sad...why wasn't he admitted and given a C/T, MRI, IV hydration and IV antibiotics? Maybe the insurance company has gotten away with this before and saved some money; being the greedy creatures that they are, perhaps they thought they'd roll the dice with another person's life hanging in the balance so they could give their case manager a fatter bonus at the end of the year. Maybe his organs will help someone else...through hard work, opportunity and bootstraps? NOT.
Your rap about pulling your self up by the bootstraps is offensive...you can't pull yourself up by the bootstraps to get clean water or breathe clean air, or eat uncontaminated food. Those things are essential to good health. We collectively expect our government to provide those without discrimination. We don't stop there when you consider fire, police, libraries, schools, and Medicare are not run for-profit in the commercial sense, only the social sense. Socialized, yes; public goods, yes; for the public benefit yes! Guaranteed, single-payer, single standard of excellent healthcare for all...yes!
Sure, we're second to none when it comes to being charitable and generous, especially when it comes to turning the other cheek one too many times while the corporate PhRMA, HMO and Insurance industry profit mongers slap the least of us in the face. That's SiCKO! Maybe religion has nothing to do with it, maybe everything. They go to church and miss the lesson, until they're "caught" in their lies and convicted of their greed.
Why are we spending so much money now on a war that most of the country feels is futile and wasteful when we know that the public desperately needs more nurses? It seems to me that the "money changers" are still in the "temple" of the current administration. You know who they are, that 'population' that is taking away the motivation for people...by limiting their choices and restricting their freedom; along with their access to decent housing, education, jobs with fair wages, and health care. They need to be tossed out of office because they're not good stewards of the public's resources.
www.SinglePayer.com
Support Ca. SB 840 (Kuehl) - USA HR 676 (Conyers)
"...the call to the nurse is not only for the bedside care of the sick, but to help in seeking out the deep-lying basic causes of illness and misery, that in the future there may be less sickness to nurse and to cure."
Lillian Wald, Founder of Public Health Nursing,
reformer and peace activist, 1914
A lot of emotion...clouding the facts.
If someone wants to go to nursing school, the multi-year wait is imaginary. There is definitely a shortage of instructors in some areas, which leads to a shortage of seats. However, there are still schools with open seats, but people create their own obstacles.
Also imaginary; living on minumum wage for years before getting a slot in a nursing school. If you show me someone who works as say, a CNA for "years" at minumum wage before getting a seat, I'll show you someone who isn't academically prepared to pass the entrance exam.
60% of working people don't have insurance and can't afford it? Please show something, anything that might back up this claim.
It's not the government's responsibility to create seats for students. The last thing we want to do as a profession is let the government take control of it. We need to create these seats ourselves, and fortunately some are doing so.
Millions of people are going to college; nursing students are not facing any greater obstacle to paying the bills than these other students. And if one example of a college student is good for the discussion, I don't know why my example, personal and painful, has to be trivialized. I paid my way, and didn't expect anyone else to shed a dime for my care.
I'd like to know what was offensive about saying that we have not seen the end of personal commitment to self-preservation? How could that be more offensive than having someone say that the days of 'pulling ourselves up by the bootstraps is over?' I find that offensive, and insulting to the millions of people who still do it. What does your vague comment about clean air, water, etc, have to do with people's ability to improve their own lot? Is there some kind of process that is pumping dirty water and air into the lungs of poor people and interfering with there ability to pursue self-improvement? I can't even see where you are trying to go here.
There is nothing accurate about your comment regarding the restriction of choice and the limitation of freedom. If you were even remotely accurate, then we wouldn't have the immigration problems we have today, because this wouldn't be perceived as a "Land of Hope and Opportunity." I don't suspect that millions risk their lives every year to come to this country because it sucks.

UKRNinUSA, RN · Jun 15, 2007

"Millions risk their lives every year to come to this country"

A bit hyperbolic!

Speaking as an immigrant, I , amongst others, was a victim of propaganda. I was led to believe, among other things, that there was no racism or sexism in America and got a rude awakening when shortly after I arrived, there was the Clarence Thomas hearings and the LA riots. Although both my husband and I work hard, the American dream still seems unattainable.

"The greatest democracy in the world" -have you checked out the level of corruption in the government and the rampant corporatism that runs the country? Aren't we just returning to a new and improved version of feudalism?

Any way I just had to call you on that one, sorry to get off topic. I for one support SB840.

DarrenWright · Jun 15, 2007

"Millions risk their lives every year to come to this country"
A bit hyperbolic!
Speaking as an immigrant, I , amongst others, was a victim of propaganda. I was led to believe, among other things, that there was no racism or sexism in America and got a rude awakening when shortly after I arrived, there was the Clarence Thomas hearings and the LA riots. Although both my husband and I work hard, the American dream still seems unattainable.
"The greatest democracy in the world" -have you checked out the level of corruption in the government and the rampant corporatism that runs the country? Aren't we just returning to a new and improved version of feudalism?
Any way I just had to call you on that one, sorry to get off topic. I for one support SB840.

An exaggeration? In what manner? In that it's not risky and many die trying to make the trip?

An estimated half-million per year risk crossing the southern border each year. Add to that the even riskier journey from Cuba or Haiti. Since many die, I'd have to say that classifies as risky.

Is there another country that as many are dying to enter?

Could you share what the Brits would say if I made residence there, said I was an American living in the UK, and then said my new home, the UK, presented nothing but obstacles and social problems and was a big disappointment to me?

UKRNinUSA, RN · Jun 15, 2007

"An estimated half-million per year risk crossing the southern border each year. Add to that the even riskier journey from Cuba or Haiti. Since many die, I'd have to say that classifies as risky."

Not every immigrant is from south of the border or from an opressed country-I am not hispanic, I did not risk my life to come here and there are many more immigrants like me. The picture of the disadvantaged immigrant risking life and limb to escape their evil oppressor is just one more example of romanticised propaganda.

"Could you share what the Brits would say if I made residence there, said I was an American living in the UK, and then said my new home, the UK, presented nothing but obstacles and social problems and was a big disappointment to me?"

They would say "Jolly good, old chap, how about a nice cup of tea, it sounds like you need one."

So because I'm an immigrant I'm not entitled to express my opinion? Are you kidding? What a load of codswhallop. The recurrent theme in this country is that you don't have a valid opinion or the right to an opinion unless you were direct descendants of the Mayflower or unless your moral character is pure and beyond reproach. What was all that about free speech?

DarrenWright · Jun 16, 2007

"An estimated half-million per year risk crossing the southern border each year. Add to that the even riskier journey from Cuba or Haiti. Since many die, I'd have to say that classifies as risky."
Not every immigrant is from south of the border or from an opressed country-I am not hispanic, I did not risk my life to come here and there are many more immigrants like me. The picture of the disadvantaged immigrant risking life and limb to escape their evil oppressor is just one more example of romanticised propaganda.
"Could you share what the Brits would say if I made residence there, said I was an American living in the UK, and then said my new home, the UK, presented nothing but obstacles and social problems and was a big disappointment to me?"
They would say "Jolly good, old chap, how about a nice cup of tea, it sounds like you need one."
So because I'm an immigrant I'm not entitled to express my opinion? Are you kidding? What a load of codswhallop. The recurrent theme in this country is that you don't have a valid opinion or the right to an opinion unless you were direct descendants of the Mayflower or unless your moral character is pure and beyond reproach. What was all that about free speech?

I never said they were all from south of the border, or that they were all from an oppressed country. My point, still valid, was that many take substantial risks to get into this country. And you reinforce my point in that many more decide to come here that DIDN'T come from third-world domicile...people that already had it good, yet came here for something BETTER!

No-one even suggested that you weren't entitled to express your opinion, but I don't believe for a moment that the folks in the UK would offer a cup of tea in response to overt complaining about the condition of the country. But if you think that's valid, here's what I have to say about your rant on racism, sexism, riots, and your failure to attain your dream; have a nice hot Starbucks...sounds like you need one.

UKRNinUSA, RN · Jun 16, 2007

"but I don't believe for a moment that the folks in the UK would offer a cup of tea in response to overt complaining about the condition of the country"

you didn't have to live through the "Thatcher years" -complaining about the state of the country is as common as complaints about the weather.

DarrenWright · Jun 16, 2007

"but I don't believe for a moment that the folks in the UK would offer a cup of tea in response to overt complaining about the condition of the country"
you didn't have to live through the "Thatcher years" -complaining about the state of the country is as common as complaints about the weather.

There is a difference between domestic criticism (essential to the democratic process), vs. a national showing up for the purpose of self-benefit who then turns to the activity of denigrating the very country they've moved to for parasitic reasons.

HM2VikingRN, RN · Jun 17, 2007

in case you don't know what immigrants do in this country, the latinos have a word for it--trabajo. they've been mowing the lawns, cleaning the offices, hammering the nails and picking the tomatoes, not to mention all that dish-washing, diaper-changing, meat-packing and poultry-plucking.
...
the only question is how much we owe our undocumented immigrant workers. first, those who do not remain to enjoy the benefits of old age in america will have to be reimbursed for their contributions to medicare and social security, and here i quote the website of the san diego aclu:
undocumented immigrants annually pay an estimated $7 billion more than they take out into social security, and $1.5 billion more into medicare.... a study by the national academy of sciences also found that tax payments generated by immigrants outweighed any costs associated with services used by immigrants.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070625/ehrenreich

parasitic is an offensive term which imo reflects the sentiments first expressed by the know-nothing party in the 1850's.

diversity strengthens us as a country. i have a friend from el salvador who came here at 15 because he was an economic and political refugee. he served in the army in iraq and became a citizen after his discharge from the army. he continues to serve in the national guard and will deploy to kosovo next month. given the opportunity these are people who want to contribue to society just as much as anyone.

DarrenWright · Jun 17, 2007

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070625/ehrenreich
Parasitic is an offensive term which IMO reflects the sentiments first expressed by the know-nothing party in the 1850's.
Diversity strengthens us as a country. I have a friend from El Salvador who came here at 15 because he was an economic and political refugee. He served in the Army in Iraq and became a citizen after his discharge from the Army. He continues to serve in the National Guard and will deploy to Kosovo next month. Given the opportunity these are people who want to contribue to society just as much as anyone.

1. There is no research or political experiment that proves the theory that diversity strengthens us as a country. I don't refute the idea, but I don't make claims that cannot be supported by evidence.

2. I wasn't referring to anectedotal people like your friend. I was instead making reference to anectedotal people who simply came here to experience the benefits of this country, and are then too easy to only find fault with it. If you don't think there are a lot of 'citizen parasites,' then I'd like to know why our country is such need to expand it's domestic welfare. I can't believe that we are so disabled as a population that places like Pennsylvania have to dedicate nearly 40% of their budget to welfare.

pickledpepperRN · Jun 17, 2007

1. There is no research or political experiment that proves the theory that diversity strengthens us as a country. I don't refute the idea, but I don't make claims that cannot be supported by evidence.
2. I wasn't referring to anectedotal people like your friend. I was instead making reference to anectedotal people who simply came here to experience the benefits of this country, and are then too easy to only find fault with it. If you don't think there are a lot of 'citizen parasites,' then I'd like to know why our country is such need to expand it's domestic welfare. I can't believe that we are so disabled as a population that places like Pennsylvania have to dedicate nearly 40% of their budget to welfare.

I work with nurses from every continent except Antarctica, including Britian, and they are not parasites. They are caring for our patients.

If I'm upset my friends from London, Cornwall, Liverpoole, and Manchester all offer a cup of tea.

In fact a lot of the venting, thinking, and planning actions to get our safe staffing ratios took place over a cup of tea after a nights work.

Now when we have to waste valuable nurse, physician, and clerical time (and the ambulance transport staff) to transfer a patient from ours to a hospital their insurance company prefers we have tea and plan how to educate people about single payer.

But venting comes first. Without complaining how do we discover the problems that need intervention?

Same for one patient or our sick society.

UKRNinUSA, RN · Jun 17, 2007

"There is a difference between domestic criticism (essential to the democratic process), vs. a national showing up for the purpose of self-benefit who then turns to the activity of denigrating the very country they've moved to for parasitic reasons."

So what you are saying is that immigrants that criticize the negative aspects of this society are parasites?

Wouldn't the CEO's of health insurance companies that profit from the denial of healthcare benefits and extortionate health insurance premiums to the tune of millions if not billions of dollars be more deserving of the label "parasite"?

DarrenWright · Jun 17, 2007

Neither one of these scenarios reflect what I was saying, but that is OK.

I'm sure the theme of my post was clear, but the tendency to avoid addressing the fact straight with diverted discussion can't be helped, I suppose.

So I pretty clearly did not say that immigrants that criticize the negative aspects of this society are parasites. However, there is something inherently wrong with people that are granted the privilege to live here, reap the benefits of living here, who then choose to make past-time of criticism. Not sure why it's a mysterious concept that if you don't like it, you have the option to return.

This isn't a malicious position, but more of a practical one.

And again, spacenurse, we have all worked with international nurses; that's the beauty of this country. They come here in droves for some reason. It's certainly not to be missionaries to a bunch of heathen savages living in mud huts, or out of the charitable nature of their hearts to uplift the weak and downtrodden American. It's because America is a land of plenty and opportunity. And the nurses you mention are not the ones I am referring to, and the scenario doesn't really fit.

And of course we vent, but is it unreasonable to take offense when someone takes it to a position of national criticism? Nationals love to target America, but are not any more gracious regarding criticism than anyone else. I've been to the UK, and several other European countries, and the tea doesn't flow like the friendship milk it's being presented as in this forum.