TEXAS CRNA's Call to action. Stop the potential AA bill!

platon20 · Mar 15, 2007

This post is a joke right?

There is a huge anesthetist shortage in TX as well as the entire nation.

We need more people providing gas, not less. Studies show that MDAs, CRNAs, and AAs are all equivalent gas providers.

The only reason for not allowing AAs to practice their training is because of greed.

CRNAs have fought long and hard for years to be recognized as gas providers equivalent to MDAs.

Its absolutely hypocritical for CRNAs to oppose AAs, and there is zero logical reason for doing so.

paraiba T · Mar 16, 2007

i personally would like to be able to find a job with out difficulty 20 years from now. i personally don't want to make only 70-80k a year (there are some na's working ft that live in areas that only pay 80k, partially because the supply outweighs the demand). i like being in demand. does that make me greedy? possibly... there is not a critical shortage of anesthesia providers at this time. granted, there are plenty of positions open, but life-saving surgeries are not being put on hold because a lack of anesthesia providers. so there is a shortage, but not a critical shortage. nothing 13 new crna programs can't take care of... speaking of greed, it seems aa's are just as greedy. why else would aa's care about what crna's have to say? is it because they want the aa profession to expand? is it because aa's would like to see more job opportunities?

more job opportunities for aa's = increased earning power for aa's. you can't get paid unless there is a job opening...and aa's are trying to get paid.

it is absolutely hypocritical for aa's to call crna's greedy. :wink2:

subee, MSN, CRNA · Mar 16, 2007

i personally would like to be able to find a job with out difficulty 20 years from now. i personally don't want to make only 70-80k a year (there are some na's working ft that live in areas that only pay 80k, partially because the supply outweighs the demand). i like being in demand. does that make me greedy? possibly... there is not a critical shortage of anesthesia providers at this time. granted, there are plenty of positions open, but life-saving surgeries are not being put on hold because a lack of anesthesia providers. so there is a shortage, but not a critical shortage. nothing 13 new crna programs can't take care of... speaking of greed, it seems aa's are just as greedy. why else would aa's care about what crna's have to say? is it because they want the aa profession to expand? is it because aa's would like to see more job opportunities?
more job opportunities for aa's = increased earning power for aa's. you can't get paid unless there is a job opening...and aa's are trying to get paid.
it is absolutely hypocritical for aa's to call crna's greedy. :wink2:

just a question: how many aa's can an mda supervise at once?

paindoc · Mar 16, 2007

What is hypocritical is that some CRNAs carp at MDs for "interfering in their profession" then turn around and do exactly the same to the AAs. If competition will ultimately play a role in keeping health care costs down, then regardless of how inflated CRNA incomes relative to all other nurses, competition should be encouraged. You can't have it both ways: complaining about MDs not wanting CRNAs to compete and out of the other side of your mouth trying to shut down AAs from competing with you. This is whining. Grow up and behave like professionals.

platon20 · Mar 16, 2007

i personally would like to be able to find a job with out difficulty 20 years from now. i personally don't want to make only 70-80k a year (there are some na's working ft that live in areas that only pay 80k, partially because the supply outweighs the demand). i like being in demand. does that make me greedy? possibly... there is not a critical shortage of anesthesia providers at this time. granted, there are plenty of positions open, but life-saving surgeries are not being put on hold because a lack of anesthesia providers. so there is a shortage, but not a critical shortage. nothing 13 new crna programs can't take care of... speaking of greed, it seems aa's are just as greedy. why else would aa's care about what crna's have to say? is it because they want the aa profession to expand? is it because aa's would like to see more job opportunities?
more job opportunities for aa's = increased earning power for aa's. you can't get paid unless there is a job opening...and aa's are trying to get paid.
it is absolutely hypocritical for aa's to call crna's greedy. :wink2:

there is absolutely zero evidence that crnas are makign less money because of market oversaturation. crnas average over 100k per year and its been that way for years now.

now if you have good evidence showing that there is an oversupply of gas providers, then please do so. but there are many dozens of studies showing a severe shortage of gas providers, especially in rural areas.

we need more gas providers not less.

jwk · Mar 16, 2007

i personally would like to be able to find a job with out difficulty 20 years from now. i personally don't want to make only 70-80k a year (there are some na's working ft that live in areas that only pay 80k, partially because the supply outweighs the demand). i like being in demand. does that make me greedy? possibly... there is not a critical shortage of anesthesia providers at this time. granted, there are plenty of positions open, but life-saving surgeries are not being put on hold because a lack of anesthesia providers. so there is a shortage, but not a critical shortage. nothing 13 new crna programs can't take care of... speaking of greed, it seems aa's are just as greedy. why else would aa's care about what crna's have to say? is it because they want the aa profession to expand? is it because aa's would like to see more job opportunities?
more job opportunities for aa's = increased earning power for aa's. you can't get paid unless there is a job opening...and aa's are trying to get paid.
it is absolutely hypocritical for aa's to call crna's greedy. :wink2:

this post is truly laughable. aa's are greedy? c'mon. we're not the ones advocating the abolition of a profession.

no critical shortage as long as there are 13 new crna schools? right.

i can tell you exactly what will happen - crna's will line up in droves and tell the texas legislature that there are plenty of anesthesia providers in texas and that aa's aren't needed. then in the very next breath, they'll want tax dollars to help open those 13 new crna schools to deal with the shortage of anesthesia providers in texas.

you can't continue to have it both ways. either there's a shortage of providers or there's not. if there is, there's plenty of room for everyone. if there's not, stop opening up new crna schools at every turn.

paraiba T · Mar 17, 2007

hmm, my post was tongue in cheek, hence all the smilies. i said there was a shortage, not a critical shortage. the point i was trying to make was that i would like to see more crna's, not aa's. yes, crna's advocate for their profession just like everyone else. if we don't advocate for our profession who else will? sure isn't the mda's. i have no reason to make up the 80k salary i mentioned. i know for a fact that is why the salary in that particular place is so low. do some research, and you will see for yourself. i am well aware of what the average crna salary is, but thanks anyway (it is an average, i know you know what an average is so i will not insult you by explaining how some crna's don't make 100k) i personally don't complain about mda's, because i know they are advocating for their profession. this is not something i lose any sleep over, but i will never support aa's. sorry guys... :lol2:

Outdoor1 · Mar 17, 2007

There is a shortage of providers to mostly rural areas. THe problem is AA's will not fill this gap. They can only work under the supervision of an anesthesiologist (who most don't live in these areas). CRNA's are qualified to work independently which means they can fill the gap. I don't think AA's or CRNA's are greedy. I think both are trying to earn a living. The only greedy ones are the MD's who want AA's to be able to practice. Because they must practice under a physician they will NEVER be competition to MD's. Lets think about this.....you bet a bunch of AA's working and MD's can totally control their salaries and why hire a CRNA when you can hire someone who doesn't really have any grounds to question what you are paying them because their very existance is dependent upon you. I have nothing against MD's. I think most are a very good resource and have great experience. I think the anesthesia care team model is a good model. I just don't think there is room for another type of provider who is completely controlled by another involved party that's all. It's just bad for everyone. It's almost the equivalent to creating a monopoly.

Bottom line is why don't AA's just go to CRNA school if they don't want to be anesthesiologists. Bottom line is most (yes and this is my opinion) AA's have a pre-med background with wishes of getting into med school and don't, or they work as an AA until they can get into med school (which there is nothing wrong with this). My question is if AA's think they are equal to CRNA's as providers then why not go through a program where you can be independent. Why be at the mercy of MD's for life if you can do everything that a CRNA or MD can do. It is so limiting. I think AA's should just have a stipulation on their practice where they can work as an AA until they are accepted to an accretided medical school, or CRNA school. I don't see a problem with there being an inbetween step between MDA or CRNA, but there should be a limit on the license.

I hope all the other nurses and CRNA's in Texas on this site realize the importance of this issue. Please to to the Texas Association of Nurse Anesthetists website, click on the voter voice and email your senator and representative NOT to support the AA bill. It takes a whopping 5 minutes. You can be assured that tons of AA's and MD's are emailing in the opposite direction. Show how strong we are as a group and defend our practice.

Vivstar · Mar 17, 2007

I personally think the MDA's are trying to find toys to do their jobs someone they can totally control, since they'ev tried for years, without success, to control the CRNA;s. They can supervise 4 AA but CRNA's can work with or without 'supervision'. Also, there is no study I know of that shows AA provide comparable care as CRNA's or MDA's. On the other hand, MDA's have tried to label CRNA's as dangerous anesthesia providers but study after study have refuted this claim and shown otherwise- CRNA's are as safe, if not safer than MDA- considering the fact that they provide >65% of anesthesia in this country. Moreover, CRNA's are the first anesthesia providers, we must fight to keep our place. Therfore, I say ON WITH THE FIGHT TO OPPOSE AA'S.

paindoc · Mar 17, 2007

Nurses, not CRNAs, with 1 month or less of training could safely administer anesthesia to 99% of the population. I don't think we really need AAs or CRNAs when it comes down to the safety argument.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Mar 17, 2007

There is a shortage of providers to mostly rural areas. THe problem is AA's will not fill this gap. They can only work under the supervision of an anesthesiologist (who most don't live in these areas). CRNA's are qualified to work independently which means they can fill the gap. I don't think AA's or CRNA's are greedy. I think both are trying to earn a living. The only greedy ones are the MD's who want AA's to be able to practice. Because they must practice under a physician they will NEVER be competition to MD's. Lets think about this.....you bet a bunch of AA's working and MD's can totally control their salaries and why hire a CRNA when you can hire someone who doesn't really have any grounds to question what you are paying them because their very existance is dependent upon you. I have nothing against MD's. I think most are a very good resource and have great experience. I think the anesthesia care team model is a good model. I just don't think there is room for another type of provider who is completely controlled by another involved party that's all. It's just bad for everyone. It's almost the equivalent to creating a monopoly.
Bottom line is why don't AA's just go to CRNA school if they don't want to be anesthesiologists. Bottom line is most (yes and this is my opinion) AA's have a pre-med background with wishes of getting into med school and don't, or they work as an AA until they can get into med school (which there is nothing wrong with this). My question is if AA's think they are equal to CRNA's as providers then why not go through a program where you can be independent. Why be at the mercy of MD's for life if you can do everything that a CRNA or MD can do. It is so limiting. I think AA's should just have a stipulation on their practice where they can work as an AA until they are accepted to an accretided medical school, or CRNA school. I don't see a problem with there being an inbetween step between MDA or CRNA, but there should be a limit on the license.
I hope all the other nurses and CRNA's in Texas on this site realize the importance of this issue. Please go to the Texas Association of Nurse Anesthetists website, click on the voter voice and email your senator and representative NOT to support the AA bill. It takes a whopping 5 minutes. You can be assured that tons of AA's and MD's are emailing in the opposite direction. Show how strong we are as a group and defend our practice.

MDA's have aneshesia residencies, CRNA's have ICU experience (at least). My argument against creating AA's is that the experience we bring to to the table from day one. There is NOTHING that replaces that experience.. I think the AA's have bring better science backgrounds to their anesthesia training, but just as we wouldn't let an MDA perform anesthesia without a residency no other practitioner should be alone with a patient unless they have some years of patient care experience behind them. Patients are more than a collection of amino acids and chemical or physical by-products. It takes years of experience to develop good judgement - you can't teach it to anybody.