Study guides, workbooks for Excelsior College

Spazzy Nurse, RN · Nov 10, 2003

Not too long ago, there were some FRAUDS who have what they call a "CPNE bootcamp" that EC "students" (aka THEIR STAFF MEMBERS POSING AS STUDENTS) posted all over the message boards about, talking it up, saying how wonderful it was when they went, etc. Turned out the company hadn't even started the "bootcamp yet". Just shows the intelligence of the staff members working for some of these 3rd party companies.

A guy who posted on a lot of the boards using the name Rob Butner (don't know if that's his real name) and he either worked for or was a student using a particular 3rd party for his study materials. I think at first he said he was a student, and then he said he worked for the company or something---- it was pretty confusing knowing what exactly he did for the company. He'd pose using other peoples' names, but the e-mail links would always go back to the same 'rbutner'. It all sounded pretty hokey to a lot of us and people on the boards started getting pretty ticked off at him. He ended up starting up his own message board. I don't know if it's still around.

Oh, and Chris-----------

Both of these stories are about Excel Advantage.

Be careful if you decide to deal with them. Be careful with any 3rd party, for that matter. I'm just speaking from experience.

(Good luck! :) )

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Nov 10, 2003

This is exactly (okay, well, mostly) what I am looking for. You can't trust websites. Or, apparently, people, for that matter. At times I am active on ebay and I'm amazed at what crap people will post, and other people will buy!

Same goes for the online academic support thing, I guess.

I have a coworker who got notes from Distance Learning Systems (about $2,000), said they were very good, passed all his exams using just the notes. I was hoping to borrow or "rent" (husband's idea) that guy's notes, but he hasn't responded to my email, so I guess not.

Another woman mentioned her "copies of the notes" she was selling, on one of our threads and when I asked her if she still had them, how old were they and how much did she want, I did get a very nice detailed email back, but her notes were PHOTOCOPIES of somebody else's originals, and that was why she was ONLY asking $55 for each unit, including shipping.of $5! Each!

Whatever the market will stand, eh? I don't mind paying a reasonable price of course--but I don't have money to give away either.

I'm so hoping to hear that at least the notes from Academy of Nursing are good. The bootcamp thing, I think I will do through EC, or maybe just spend a couple of days with a trusted nurse colleague.

Or maybe a CPNE review would be something my heavily-recruiting hospital will set up through the education office. I may just have to suggest that!

In any case--thanks for your response, Spazzy--and I'll watch for "rbutner!"

Spazzy Nurse, RN · Nov 11, 2003

Hi Chris,

Have you considered going right through EC? They have free content guides that you can download online or they can mail them to you. They also have expanded content guides for $20 or less (at least they used to be) that give you pages to find the info on if you are using the texts that EC suggests you use. That's the route I ended up using for my last couple of tests, and I did better than I had when I was using RUE's crummy materials. Wish I would've known that when I was first thinking of starting up with EC. I always tell people to start out that way, and if they find that they need more help, then start using 3rd party study materials. EC's content guides have exactly what you will need to know for the exams, except it's in a very condensed format so you need to do a little work to expand it. For example, it may have 'Leg Bones' listed on the outline. It's your job to get more specific and learn the names and locations of the leg bones. Understand what I'm saying? I found that doing things this way worked better than completing a study guide made up by some company because when I was doing the study guides, i found that all I was doing was rushing through it to FINISH it. I really didn't learn or retain much. When I have to look up the leg bones all on my own, THAT'S when I learn it. And it didn't take me any longer to study this way----- in fact, it was actually quicker.

You're so right about some of the people out there and what they try to sell. I made a "friend" online who I sent a copy of my grid that I used in my CPNE. Later she sold it on EBay as part of a package of study materials. Niiiiice. People were even selling their CPNE study guides (aka "carjacks") for $100 or more, and EC sends them to people FOR FREE once they are done with all of their nursing exams. And people buy them! I just can't believe that these nursing students try to screw over their own. Have a little compassion, people! This program is hard and expensive for everyone..... why not try and make it just a teeny bit easier for one person? It'll make their day and they'll never forget it.

Sorry. The urge to rant took over. I'm done now. :)

hawaiit · Nov 11, 2003

I personally attended the week long CPNE bootcamp in Saltlake City. not having current clinical experience. I paid $1000 for the class alone. I got all the dedicated hands on training they could cram into a week from 9-5, they included lunch, an extensive pre-bootcamp online training program of videos, and reference material for clinical procedures which I still have available to use until I pass the CPNE. It was and still is more than I paid for and a real exception to the norm. Thier Excel classses or one thing, and there may be frauds out there imitating them? but the The Academy of Nursings' CPNE BOOTCAMP in Saltlake City Is the best thing available for those wanting help to pass the CPNE. Anyone needing help with this matter concerned about the critical comments in this forum can contact me at [email protected] I am in no way connectd with the school other than a CPNE BOOTCAMP -grateful student!

Spazzy Nurse, RN · Nov 12, 2003

I'm glad you got a lot out of the 'CPNE Bootcamp' that you attended. I don't know anyone who has been to it, so I know nothing about it other than a while back, fake students were posting how they went to it and that it was great, only to have actual students post back that they called that company and found out that the bootcamp hadn't even started up yet, that it was still in the works. How do I know that these fake students were fake? For one, if you clicked on their names it'd take you to the same e-mail address as the other fake ones. Another thing was none of these people EVER posted on the boards, other than to post their advertisement about the wonderful bootcamp. I was pretty tied to all of the boards for a long time, and I think I got pretty good at spotting the occasional fraud that would poop up now and then.

Again, I'm glad you had a good experience, since the CPNE really is a biggie and students have a lot at stake when they take it, making adequate preparation is a must. The only things that I know about Excel are the things that I posted, and I know these things are real because I saw them with my own eyes. Rumors float around and freak people out, so if there is a chance that something isn't the truth, I don't post it. This program is scary enough--- I don't want to scare anyone more than they already are. :)

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Nov 13, 2003

I'm glad you got a lot out of the CPNE bootcamp, too, because I can tell you that it's maybe the only thing that bunch has going for them!

After spending considerable time looking at the part of their website I could get to, I decided that the $99 to $199 advertised was probably worth the risk for the first course, if they were anything like what they said they were.

Well, they're not. Their home page talks about EC so much you are strongly led to believe that they are somehow legitimately related. Every time you see the words "Excelsior College," it is a link--of course, I'm already an EC student, what do I need to click on their link to learn about EC for? In fact, they later *told* me that they work so closely with EC that EC "tells us what we say is OK," to which I responded, "you mean, EC tells you what you may and may not say about them and your relationship?" And they said, "uh, yeah.")

Turns out those links all lead to their disclaimer. This I find out after spending $255--not the advertised $99 for that specific course--which is about the cost of the EC exam over the price on the website for NC1. Can you believe that made me even more certain that they and EC were linked? Do you think it's a coincidence that they set it up that way? If so, you are as gullible as me! Even then I thought, well, it could still be OK--even though I was pissed about the higher price for EC students (if you don't go to EC, there are two other boxes to click on....).

Their "virtual library" has no books, just book titles, a brief summary and how you can buy them. There may have been a brief nonspecific summary and then the 10 item quiz (below). I never saw a bookless library before!

The first unit of NC1 was comprised of an outline in powerpoint format--the "audio" portion consisted of a car horn and screeching sounds that came up when you clicked on the audio icon on a couple of their slides. All right! That made it worth the extra bucks, right there!

There were 2 or 3 videos--I tried to watch one that was 34 (or maybe 43?) minutes long about triage, but it locked up half way through. Twice. Enough of that! The half I saw wasn't very substantial, and wasn't professionally done. It appeared to be of a speaker at some sort of luncheon seminar.

Someplace else there, I found some 10-item quizzes, but no material to read to prepare for them. (I got a 100 and a 90. With no prep. Sorry--that kinda suggests there's not much benefit to be gained, IMHO.) You could send your scores to yourself, your instructor and a couple of other places. Apparently there was no instructor, but I did find a list of 5 or 6 names, related to getting a course syllabus--I clicked on each name. No syllabus, no syllabus, no syllabus, no syllabus, AHA! A syllabus! But the instructor had "decided to make it temporarily unavailable," and I had to have a code word to see the syllabus. Of course, I don't have the code word. So, effectively, still nothing.

In short, it did NOT have "as much or more" than similar providers. They were right about one thing: you don't have to wait for it to come in the mail.

And their guarantee--this is amazing. If you can take the EC exam and manage to fail it three times (at a cost of $465 total), they will give you back your $255. If you can't take an exam three times and learn enough just from the taking to pass the exam, there's a problem, and it doesn't have a whole lot to do with the quality of this online material!

I spent an hour or so total, yesterday, yammering at three people who work for AofN--a woman who quickly passd me off to the "manager" (see below), who was insulting and condescending--AND THEN SAID HE WAS "JUST A PROGRAMMER!!!" He accused me of having done "nothing" on the site, although I supposedly had logged on 25 times in 2-1/2 days (amazing! And I slept and worked two days as well!), and that I hadn't done enough to really *know* what they had to offer. He passed me off to another guy who said I had done *too much* for them to give me a refund!

Bottom line: Guy#3 was actually very nice. An accountant. He said I "had done too much" for them to initiate a refund (interesting contrast, that) but if I approached PayPal and/or my credit card company for a chargeback, they "wouldn't contest it." We parted friends (I even gave him an URL for a truly interactive site--maybe they can copy the format, then they'd really have something!). Ten minutes later, the phone rings. Woman #1 says they have decided to refund my money, but the books are already closed out for the day, and so it won't happen until tomorrow. They will just refund via PayPal, but she doesn't know how to do that. (I do, I sell on ebay and sometimes customers send $ twice or too much, or the wrong amount, or whatever. So, I told her how to do that.) It won't be until tomorrow, she says. That's fine--and thanks, I say.

Less than 5 minutes later, I get an email from PayPal informing me of the full refund.

I will tell you that in my "discussion," I clearly suggested that if they weren't able to give me a refund based on their failure to deliver, I would do whatever I could come up with in the attempt to get it, including contacting the Interstate Commerce Commission (they are in Utah, I'm not--that's interstate), the Utah Dept of Ed., the Utah Board of Nursing, and the NLN. They didn't react at the time, but I suspect they were reacting all over the place toward the end of the process.

BTW, they said they have "700 students very happily taking the NC1 in Utah, and another 134 outside Utah taking it online." I never saw any posts on the site, and I really have my doubts. Anybody out there taking any of the Excel Advantage/Academy of Nursing, with or without problems or complaints? I just can't conceive of there being more than 800 learners and not a *single* post to their own website discussion line. And there aren't all that many members in the yahoo group either.

(Funny, I tried to post something there related to something another student had said, and I couldn't get my stuff to post--whether I sent it from home or from the site itself... wonder what THAT was about?! LOL)

Oh, and Spazzy--they have *no* nurses on their staff--but supposedly a NP and some nurses "with 30 years experience teaching" had reviewed the material and they "thought it was just fine." They also apparently have no teachers. Most of the staff--if not all of it, based on who I came across--are the receptionist, the complaint guy (he passed me off to Woman #1), Woman #1 (not sure what she does but she was personally offended when I used words like "fraud"), Rob Butner, and the last one, the nice one, who admitted to being an accountant.

Rob Butner? Turns out he is head of their IT department. His exact words, "I'm just a programmer."

And in case anyone thinks I'm a purist or a radical or something--I don't begrudge anyone making a buck. I think the government should leave Bill Gates alone (that makes three of us, Bill, me and Mrs. Bill). But I'l be the first one to stand up and tell my objective experience if it can help someone else. In this case, this smacked of bait and switch, and fraud.

And I think if that bunch really believed what they were saying, they wouldn't have run quite so fast to refund my money.

Just my own objective experience.....

hawaiit · Nov 14, 2003

The Academy of Nursing, Excel program didn't impress me either, so I didn't sign up for it, or ever recommend it to anyone. I hope everyone reads your story and is forewarned.

Fortunately EC has come up with these content guides they didn't have much of 18 months ago probably in response to these flourshing schools like Excel.

The CPNE Bootcamp was a different story. I have had little trouble downloading a great deal from their web site pre-bootcamp videos library, procedure graphics, even a simulated interactive patient care station that my instructor hadn't seen? you may not have downloaded all the tools they offfer that are needed to download their material as they instruct you to do?

I liked Dr. Frys' old program which is no longer available and I don't know of another good one to recommend, but you might investigate the new one thoroughly. I think EC and Calif. put him under pressure not to be so helpful. He uses textbooks, CDs, and videos now? I am glad you got you're money back though. EC recommends you buy a mickey mouse simulation lab kit that is half missing everything you need for$59. At the Bootcamp as another unadvertised extra they loaded us down with a free lab kit of syringes, IV bags and tubing, med. vials, saline, wound care supplies , etc. etc. worth probably $100 or more. It would be ashamed if someone needed clinical training like I did and they avoided the bootcamp because Excel was a scam apparently. Its the same location, some of the same people manage it, but the 3 RN, working RNS, who did the teaching my week were all you could ask and more. They never closed up and sent us home, they would volunteer to stay as long as we wanted to practise the stations, and patient care procedures. I have to be grateful for that kind of attitude. I hope all future students find they don't change, but I recommend they investigate carefully before they pay up. I understand they are moving to new facilities and that should be a consideration for disrupption of services. Good Luck to all Jennifer

Spazzy Nurse, RN · Nov 16, 2003

wow chris, thanks for all the work you did!! spread the word! you may save other students a lot of money ~ and a few stress-induced tears.

after all this excel talk, i went and hopped around their website a bit. something i found to be pretty damn funny was that the names that are listed on the site as "faculty" and "student advisors" are also rn students using the excel program. now that's interesting! and check out this post i found on another board. it's from our good buddy rob butner, who is supposidly an ec student and also a big-wig at excel. he is so gifted with words, it almost sounds like an advertisement!!!!

got an "a" on nc2---new tutorial system is the best of all worlds!

by rob b.

i used chancellor for nc2 and got a "d". i then bought a rue workbook off of ebay and did even worse!!!! ...you'de think i would have gotten better just through exposure to the content. my girlfriend bombed using istudysmart

i then tried the new excel-advantage online program through the academy of nursing (http://www.future-nurse.com) click on "virtual classroom". i not only got an "a", but i actually retained about 85% of the content----wow.

rob becoming rob r.n.

mr. rob should go into advertising rather than nursing because dude gotta gift! :chuckle

i'm sure glad you got your money back chris, because most people have zero luck when it comes to refunds from publishing companies. i sure did. they all make it sound like they're closely affiliated with ec, and none of them are. none.

check out this interesting tidbit..........

i asked a staff person from rue how they knew what was covered on each test in order to make their study guides. she gave me some run-around answer that went all over the place. to clarify, i asked her, "so your staff goes and takes these exams on their own, and then they write your study materials from memory of what was on the test?" she said, "yes." whooooaaaa, now that sounds like a mighty reliable way to study, doesn't it?????

like i've said a zillion times before...... if i only knew then, what i know right now i wouldn't have signed that stupid contract. now rather than putting all of my energy into kicking my own ass, i try and use it to warn others of scams and some of the crap that 3rd parties try and pull on us. i'm not saying that all 3rd parties have awful study materials or that they're all this hokey, but they do all get their info in one of two ways...... 1) taking the exams themselves and making their study materials by what they saw on the exams, or 2) illegally. any of you who have gone and taken one of these knows, they photograph you, make you show ids, even fingerprint you. they watch you on camera every single second that you're in there. there is no way you can record these exams in any way, so you know 3rd party employees memorize whatever they can and go from there. sad sad sad.

thanks again chris for all the work you did and all the time you put into typing up your long post!

hawaiit · Nov 16, 2003

Lets not forget that EC is an extension program that claims they don't care where you learned a subject from, they will compile and accredit what you have learned so that you can put it to use.

So are EC students now condeming that policy as unethical. Are EC students forgetting there is a severe nursing shortage out there to the deteriment of the publics health care. Are we not able to preceive that we may be *****ing about the understaffed, intolerable, unsafe workload, overtime, weekends, holidays we will have to work to compensate for that nursing shortage we ourself can promote.

EC is not an exclusive LPN to RN program that can afford to dictate to all its eligible students from diverse backgrounds-after they are enrolled -a formal, traditional regimen,, that may make it unnecessarily harder and slower for a student to become an RN. Which of course only aggravates the shortage, and the work opportunities of many probably very needy students.

If we feel that way why don't we all wait the average 3-4 years and go thru a formal campus program for our minimum BSN for another 4 years.

Remember two things: your EC credits are worthless at any other nursing schools. My stateboard doesn't accept EC degree at all, as others donot also. Calif. either wants to disqualify EC or already has for future students not enrolled before Sept. 03.

Secondly, realistically to pass the EC nursing exams and the CPNE YOU HAVE TO HAVE LEARNED THE MATERIAL AND BE ABLE TO PERFORM THE CLINICAL PROCEDURES, or anotherwise do the work. Are any of you condeming the NCLEX prep. guides? Whats the diff.? Is EC degree so prized its honor demands it be earned in the hardest possible way, or is it barely acceptable.

I say EC is a great program, and a great opportunity for those of us with little chance of becoming an RN without it, but its too boast of much more accreditation than it actually has!

Who would of thunk it! Sincerely, Yogie Bear

Pmdc · Nov 16, 2003

What's this about most colleges not accepting EC nursing credits? I've checked with several colleges and universities, and so far, all have said that they award a certain amount of credit for your ASN studies when you are admitted to their school to study for RN to BSN or RN to MSN. The only requirements that you had to meet were that you graduated from a school that was NLN-AC and regionally accredited. EC has those accreditations; I checked with the accrediting agencies just to be sure.

Some universities require that you be eligible for licensure in their state in order to enter their BSN and graduate programs. I've even checked with those states to see if I would be eligible for licensure even if I could not obtain initial licensure (by exam) there. So far, all have told me that I could file for licensure by endorsement (these were all southeastern states). I'm not sure if Alabama allows EC grads to file for licensure by endorsement. They don't allow initial licensure for EC grads because of the lack of a psych clinical (I think), for some reason.

I know nothing about all those publishing companies out there, but I think I'll finish without them. As much as the publishing companies are trashed on these boards, I'm guessing that it's probably well deserved. Keep up the good work, Spazzy. You've probably saved many unsuspecting students a lot of money.

As far as the EC program, I have personally talked to several people who completed their RN studies through them, and ALL have recommended it. Almost all of them are paramedic/RNs working in flight/ED/critical care environments, although one is a former paramedic who is now a NP. They have ALL said that no one has even asked them about where they finished their ASN. They just wanted a competent, licensed nurse.

Who's to say that the 21 year old recent graduate of the local two year community college is going to be better prepared than the recent EC graduate who has many years of experience as a paramedic or LPN? If you roll into the ED of the local trauma center as a patient with multi-system trauma, which would you choose? I'll bet I know the answer. I'm not attempting to insult the 21 year old GNs by the way. I just want to point out the value of relevant experience that the community colleges can't teach.

If we put info on this board, we should at least be as factual as we possibly can. I don't want to muddy the water for someone who is just starting to look into the EC option.

PMDC

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Nov 16, 2003

This is hardly a condemnation of EC, or of other ACADEMIC sources for training and education toward our elibility to take the NCLEX.

This is a thread about sites that swindle you versus sites that have been (and hopefully continue to be) helpful.

All any SCHOOL can do is prepare us to pass the NCLEX using an approved (hopefully) package of materials and experiences, with tests along the way. All passing the NCLEX does is give a reasonable assurance that we are going to be SAFE nurses.

To my knowledge, the NCLEX is a NATIONAL exam--if you pass the NCLEX, you are eligible for licensing in your state, or any state you choose. Just list it on your exam!

States with reciprocity accept the RN status of nurses who are licensed in those other states. It is a state to state thing. If the NLN accepts students from a school to sit for the NCLEX, they are "okay." For a state to identify a specific school, with no other criteria in evidence, as not acceptable would actually be an infringement on free trade (ha!), and on the rights of the students who attended that school. If the NCLEX is the criteria for students of other schools, then the NCLEX has to be the criteria for students of those "identified" schools. (Clear as mud? Legal reasoning.)

The issue with California is, I believe, related to the "lack" of clinical experience because EC students don't have hands on clinicals. However, in order to get into EC, you have to have had your clinicals--the least prepared people are those who have finished "at least 50% of their clinicals" (like me). By the end of the first year, you are supposed to have learned all the skills, then the clinicals are just practice, practice, practice. If we are doing that at work (again like me), we are able toperform on the CPNE, which is like the practice part of the NCLEX (except that it is school-specific).

As far as transferring/accepting EC credits, no nursing school accepts credits for the nursing courses from other schools, because they have different ways and orders of presenting the materials. Just like EC makes you take NC 1-3 even if you already have done that material at your (in my case) first school.

As far as the nursing material goes, none of it transfers. The other stuff, apparently, all transfers. (EC is a "real" college, with "real" campus, "real" professors, etc. That may make the difference.