Student Loan Debt Direct Entry

[jentl2002]

Would you go into 160k of student loan debt for a 2 year pmhnp program in order to start earning NP salary of 200k more quickly? Or would you take a longer rout (BSN then MSN) and take 5 years to complete school before earning potential of 200k?

Please be kind... I know direct entry programs are frowned upon sometimes. I am only asking about student loan aspect here. 200k earning potential comes from a job offer I've already received at my current company for whenever I finish school. I'm currently a social worker and have worked in psych hospitals for many years. 

The question is, short but expensive to earn more sooner, or long but cheaper to spend less on school?

Thank you for your thoughts!

[RobertS1030]

Some people here are adding useful info you might not have considered, but it seems like a lot of people are intent on poo-pooing the scenario you’ve offered without answering your straightforward question. Hmm.

It sounds like your current company really likes you - is their job offer for real, and will they be there in two years? As a former lawyer, I can tell you - get it in writing! Especially if you’re laying out $160k in reliance on it.

To your question - it might be useful to think of it in terms of opportunity costs, if you want a purely economic answer (though there’s more to life). Your options are do nothing, do the expensive but faster program, or a less expensive but slower route.  Let’s look at it over the 5 years you mentioned: I don’t know what you’re making now, but let’s say you’d keep making that plus raises, which you’re giving up by changing careers.  Second option - you forego any salary for two years of program, and earn $200k a year for the next 3 years = 600k - 160k tuition = $440k net benefit, less any salary you missed out on for two years of school.  Now do a longer route, let’s say you spend $12k on an 18-month accelerated BSN program during which you don’t work, then you go to work doing bedside nursing at a salary of $100k/year (insanely high for my area, but not so high for others).  You also spend 3 years doing a part time program during this time at $12k a year (based on grad school tuition in my state, which I think is about the cheapest in the country).  Then you take your $200k/year job for the last 6 months of our hypothetical 5-year period.  So that’s $400k salary (3 years RN; 6 months psych NP) - 48k tuition = $352k net.  Of course, you can play with this endlessly, it depends on a LOT of assumptions, and there are ways to do it all more cheaply.  Plus at the end of the day you won’t have a Vanderbilt degree, depending on how much that matters to you.

I’m also starting Vanderbilt in fall (without a post-grad job offer!), so I for one think you’re making a good decision:)

[jentl2002]

DrNurseEd said:

I wish you well, but it's not realistic to expect that you will complete an NP Program in only 2 years without already being an RN and having RN experience. I am an Educator and have experience with Nursing Education. I would advise planning for at least 3 years of schooling, especially as even the Vanderbilt site suggests that is how long the program would take. Also, please research the market on NPs in the area you plan to settle down. The NP Market is very dynamic and oversaturated in many areas, especially FNPs and now PMHNPs. Be sure it's worth it before taking on so much debt. Best of luck to you!!

Thank you. I am understanding this is a very rigorous program. I do feel well-connected to the field. I've talked to several people who have gone through the same program in two years and agree it's intense but they all had positive experiences. I'm also not opposed to 3 years if that's what pans out. I'm in a lucky situation where I do have a job lined up after I graduate, no matter when that is, with a company I've worked for for 9 years. I've spoken at length to many PMHNPs in my city and state, in my company and in others, and understand there continues to be a great need in my area. That being said, I'm nervous! Change is scary. My financial advisor calmed some of my nerves. I'm in awe of the profession and am so excited to learn! Thanks for responding.

[londonflo]

jentl2002 said:

a job offer I've already received at my current company for whenever I finish school. I'm currently a social worker and have worked in psych hospitals for many years. 

Will they subsidize you while you go to school? I did have a school subsidize me for a position when I went to graduate school. It is not unheard of.  Can you get the offer of a job in writing. Times change, needs change. In your employer's scope they need you with your degree now......but who will they need 2 years from now? 

I erased a previous post about the boyfriend supporting you but.....What happens if he leaves?

jentl2002 said:

although my boyfriend will be paying for most living expenses while we’re there.

I taught basic RN education for 39 years. At the beginning everyone is willing to pitch in.  After the first year, frankly, the spouse/boyfriend  usually says " I didn't think it would be like this. Missed family's get-togethers, missed friends parties, 'your are studying all the time,  money only going out for your education--nothing coming in', There I said it! ...

 Wait until you get married;  you both share your accomplishments for the long term. An investment for you and him! And you work together toward this investment!

[jentl2002]

RobertS1030 said:

Some people here are adding useful info you might not have considered, but it seems like a lot of people are intent on poo-pooing the scenario you’ve offered without answering your straightforward question. Hmm.

It sounds like your current company really likes you - is their job offer for real, and will they be there in two years? As a former lawyer, I can tell you - get it in writing! Especially if you’re laying out $160k in reliance on it.

To your question - it might be useful to think of it in terms of opportunity costs, if you want a purely economic answer (though there’s more to life). Your options are do nothing, do the expensive but faster program, or a less expensive but slower route.  Let’s look at it over the 5 years you mentioned: I don’t know what you’re making now, but let’s say you’d keep making that plus raises, which you’re giving up by changing careers.  Second option - you forego any salary for two years of program, and earn $200k a year for the next 3 years = 600k - 160k tuition = $440k net benefit, less any salary you missed out on for two years of school.  Now do a longer route, let’s say you spend $12k on an 18-month accelerated BSN program during which you don’t work, then you go to work doing bedside nursing at a salary of $100k/year (insanely high for my area, but not so high for others).  You also spend 3 years doing a part time program during this time at $12k a year (based on grad school tuition in my state, which I think is about the cheapest in the country).  Then you take your $200k/year job for the last 6 months of our hypothetical 5-year period.  So that’s $400k salary (3 years RN; 6 months psych NP) - 48k tuition = $352k net.  Of course, you can play with this endlessly, it depends on a LOT of assumptions, and there are ways to do it all more cheaply.  Plus at the end of the day you won’t have a Vanderbilt degree, depending on how much that matters to you.

I’m also starting Vanderbilt in fall (without a post-grad job offer!), so I for one think you’re making a good decision:)

Thank you for your input! I knew posting here that I'd get a lot of opinions about the length of the program, as there's lots of thoughts about direct entry. Really just looking for ideas on the finances, so I thank you. When I do the calculations you mentioned with my numbers, there's no question what the right path is. Are you PMHNP too? I'm so excited to get to know the other prespecialty students in the fall!

[jentl2002]

londonflo said:

Will they subsidize you while you go to school? I did have a school subsidize me for a position when I went to graduate school. It is not unheard of.  Can you get the offer of a job in writing. Times change, needs change. In your employer's scope they need you with your degree now......but who will they need 2 years from now? 

I erased a previous post about the boyfriend supporting you but.....What happens if he leaves?

I taught basic RN education for 39 years. At the beginning everyone is willing to pitch in.  After the first year, frankly, the spouse/boyfriend  usually says " I didn't think it would be like this. Missed family's get-togethers, missed friends parties, 'your are studying all the time,  money only going out for your education--nothing coming in', There I said it! ...

 Wait until you get married;  you both share your accomplishments for the long term. An investment for you and him! And you work together toward this investment!

Thanks for your input. We looked at rings ? Should be coming soon. That being said, I can do it on my own if I had to. 

[RobertS1030]

jentl2002 said:

Are you PMHNP too? I'm so excited to get to know the other prespecialty students in the fall!

I was soooo close to applying for the psych program because of my background in social work and the need, but honestly I don’t have the stamina after 10 years of public defender work to deal with what you see, and I was also interested in more general health equity.  Though I screamed loudly to every nurse I met in the Bay Area that they could make a freaking fortune in rural northern California doing psych NP work, and I’d still give up a toe to know that my former clients could actually see a psychiatric provider in person, rather than lowest bidder doc-in-the-box.  So that’s my rant about how much I appreciate psych NPs:) I decided to do adult/geriatric primary care, but I’d like to find a setting that involves multi-disciplinary practice and facilitates access to specialized psych care.  So that’s a long way of saying adult primary care, but with a special place in my heart for screening for mental health issues and getting folks the help they need.  I’m also really looking forward to our prespecialty year!

[N7NP]

londonflo said:

 

I always felt graduate school created another dimension of my self. But I did not go through the rush- hour- time programs. 

I truly hope for the best. You are looking at further ways to help patients. And you will grow with the additional education. 

 

Why ask here then?

Exactly my thought. Unless you are working as a recruiter for Vandy's MSN program?

If your sitch is so rosy, with all expense paid ride and an SO willing to pay all your other expenses...what os the problem?

[RobertS1030]

N7NP said:

If your sitch is so rosy, with all expense paid ride and an SO willing to pay all your other expenses...what os the problem?

I believe her question was regarding the significant tuition cost of a faster program versus a more traditional route - the info about the post-grad job offer and living expenses was just extra info and context.  I don’t see anywhere that she said the tuition is paid for; hence the question about whether it made sense to take on that debt.  It seems like people here are really interested in crapping on direct entry NP programs for some reason.  Are there a lot of people in this profession with inferiority complexes?

[jentl2002]

N7NP said:

Exactly my thought. Unless you are working as a recruiter for Vandy's MSN program?

If your sitch is so rosy, with all expense paid ride and an SO willing to pay all your other expenses...what os the problem?

Not sure about the attitude here... but I had a question about debt and got my question answered. Thanks.

[jentl2002]

RobertS1030 said:

It seems like people here are really interested in crapping on direct entry NP programs for some reason.  Are there a lot of people in this profession with inferiority complexes?

Oh you will get some responses here...

I hesitated to even post my question because of all the hate people have gotten on other questions when they mention direct entry. You're right - just a loan/economics question really!

I WISH I had an all expense paid ride! 

[Katetn]

 I am also a social worker that is pivioting my career to the PMHNP role. I was also accepted to the Fall 2023 cohort at VUSN's direct entry PMHNP program. Congratulations, class mate!!

When I first considered this route in my career, I looked at the breakdown of what social workers make at the top of our licensing vs. the average PMHNP salaries. I asked myself 2 questions

1. Is this route entirely what I want for my career, is it intellectually and emotionally the path I want to follow. 

2. If I were to take out $180k in loans and receive NO support paying them back, is this STILL the route I wish to take? 

I answered yes to both, which is what is giving me the courage to take out these massive loans, leave the field I love deeply and grind through two more years of education. 

You know more than anyone how life changing this is going to be and I know it's scary to take this jump but I believe in order to make it this far, your heart knows this is worth it.

 It sounds like you have accepted (and paid that $500 deposit!) so it sounds like you're officially joining the cohort. I would love to connect with my fellow social worker turned PMHNP Vanderbilt class mate. Are you on our facebook page?

-Katelyn