Starvation: A good thing when concerning the Obese.

[xt1]

After doing some research, I have yet to see a reason why an obese person would not want to just fast their way down to a healthy body fat percentage. If anyone can raise some legitimate points for debate that'd be great as I need some more views on this so I can do further research. Feel free to be as technical as you like in reasons for or against said topic. Please include sources for referenced information. Feel free to through up cliches so they can be shown as inaccurate or proven either way. :)

[bcskittlez]

Here is my take (for whatever it may be worth).

You cannot possibly address the complex issues regarding/surrounding obesity by simply "starving yourself down"-----

Anyone with personal experience with eating disorders, and most health care professionals should already KNOW THIS. There are complex and myriad mental and emotional health issues one must address to "get healthy" and well and, this is particularly true in the case of obesity.

Personally, when tackling issues like obesity, eating disorders and their complications (such as type 2 diabetes), I see education is a good thing, but treatment and therapy must extend to the mental health arena for it to last or be complete.

That is my take, anyhow.

I totally agree SmilingEyez, I know for a fact that I have a mental problem with fasting, LOL, (you would have to sew my mouth shut), which means I also have a mental issue with eating (I JUST LOVE IT!!!) Some people are on the other end of the spectrum. Although I have tried to look past the fact that I won't stay on a lifetime program (not diet) to lose these additional inches because "my mind won't let me", I have come to the conclusion that this is just it. There can't be any other reason for not wanting to be healthy. You have to have a mental issue. Who in there right mind would not want to look like a model, or just be healthy. But some of us sabotage our efforts daily. Just like anorexic's have a mental issue with not "seeing" that they are potentially already healthy and don't need to lose weight.

[xt1]

Wow, such harsh comments...

Firstly to those of you who have provided useful information... Thank you for your replys I will be looking at each and every comment made to this thread.

Secondly, I am not a troll, nor am I doing this for homework... I am obese myself, Now with all that out of the way... Please do not over analyze the way in which I word my sentences I've never claimed to be good at english, Im far from it. by asking for references I merely wanted to try and weed out what is hear say from fact. People all day long can say starvation is bad... and quote some negative effect but my knowledge is limited and in addition to what I am reading, I'd like some insight into what you might know that I dont. If I can lose 60 lbs. in a month then to me that would a very good thing for the obese.

Some General information, This is quoted from

http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/ap/vdgconcepts/digestive/reading5.mhtml

During the first phase of starvation, blood glucose levels are maintained through the production of glucose from glycogen, proteins, and fats. At first glycogen is broken down into glucose. However, only enough glycogen is stored in the liver to last a few hours. Thereafter, blood glucose levels are maintained by the breakdown of proteins and fats. Fats are decomposed into fatty acids and glycerol. Fatty acids can be used as a source of energy, especially by skeletal muscle, thus decreasing the use of glucose by tissues other than the brain. Glycerol can be used to make a small amount of glucose, but most of the glucose is formed from the amino acids of proteins. In addition, some amino acids can be used directly for energy.

In the second stage, which can last for several weeks, fats are the primary energy source. The liver metabolizes fatty acids into ketone bodies that can be used as a source of energy. After about a week of fasting, the brain begins to use ketone bodies, as wells as glucose, for energy. This usage decrease the demand for glucose, and the rate of protein breakdown diminishes but does not stop. In addition, the proteins not essential for survival are used first.

The third stage of starvation begins when the fat reserves are depleted and there is a switch to proteins as the major energy source. Muscles, the largest source of protein in the body, are rapidly depleted. At the end of this stage, proteins, essential for cellular functions are broken down, and cell function degenerates.

Once the body enters into a state of prolonged starvation the body becomes glucose sparing therefore protein sparing because the demand for gluconeogenesis is minimized. " In addition, the proteins not essential for survival are used first." meaning the muscles will be the last to go.

Yes metabolism will slow but that is to be expected because of a decrease in activity but fasting still remains the fastest way to lose weight. All of the calories burned throughout the day will come directly from ketones, which are a product of catabolism of stored fat.

It is currently my view that fasting for up to say a month... with adequate intake of water and maybe a multivitamin provides less of a health risk than maintaining a prolonged obese state.

Now as far as gaining the weight back... I'd like a little more information on that. My plan would be once the fast is completed to slowly increase calorie intake to a maintance level of about 2000 calories. As far as I know once you resume intake of macronutrients the body will return to using carbohydrates as the preferred source of fuel. but even if it doesn't over a peroid of time it will and if your intake of calories is less than or equal to what you burn throughout the day there is no way you can regain the weight.

Im 284 lbs approx 35% body fat currently I've considered attempting a reduction to 220 lbs via fasting but want to understand how my body should react to a fast completely before starting such an attempt. I've read on several sites that normal non-obese people have fasted up to 50 days and some longer. My plan calls for 44 days of fasting of course no one would ever recommend starvation but Im not asking for your opinion on whether I should do it or not but I am asking for more infromation of the effects, and process of starvation and the process and effects once you return to a normal diet. So If anyone has anything to add please feel free.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Thanks for the clarification.

You're right many people fast. I knew a person who juice fasted for 30 days and lost 35 lbs.

Understand that we can not give medical advice. I personally don't think obese people should undertake a fast or very low calorie diet without supervision from a profession MD, NP or RD. Someone who can monitor you medically for electrolytes, albumin stores, etc.

Whatever diet we choose is a personal decision and there are so many to choose from. I wish you well.

The times I've tried to fast, which were only for a 24 hours I become severely aggitated and couldn't do it.

[xt1]

... My "research" is based upon human anatomy and physiology textbooks, the internet, and college teachers... I am attempting to completely understand the processes of starvation. and the effects on the body afterwards. No research has ever stated that starvation is a good thing but what I meant was the conclusion that I draw from what I've read so far is that fasting would be the fastest way to lose excess body fat and therefore a good thing for the obese.

[xt1]

Understand that we can not give medical advice.

I completely understand that and am not asking that of anyone... I am merely asking for facts on the process, what and why things happen during and after starvation.

[Elisheva]

Okay, I hope this helps: I finished a nutrition class last semester with a Masters level dietician who has worked at an area hospital for over 20 years.

According to her and our text, a healthy weight loss is 1-2 pounds per week, and she also stated that 2 pounds is optomistic after the first month. We had to keep diet plans for 3 days. recording every bite of food that went into our mouths. And we had to total all our nutrients, down to folates, magnesium, etc. At that time, I was eating 1600 calories a day (a recommended healthy weight loss caloric intake for me) and even then it was just barely possible to get all my daily requirements for nutrients.

My advice is to make an appointment with a registered dietician to set up an individualized, healthy weight loss plan. You have to make life style changes, not just food changes.

I apologize for not taking you seriously earlier.

[Elisheva]

X, on a personal note. Some years ago, I fasted for 10 days, taking water only for the first few days and some broth the last few. I lost 12 pounds. Within 3 weeks of stopping the fast, I gained it all back. By the was, the fast was not done in order to lose weight.

I can't quote statistics and research sources, but I know that fasting is a poor way to lose weight, you'll lose mostly water, and it's hard on your heart and other vital organs (no glucose for the brain - its main fuel).

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I completely understand that and am not asking that of anyone... I am merely asking for facts on the process, what and why things happen during and after starvation.

Understood which is why this thread is still ongoing. Good luck in your research, I applaud you for not going into this blindly. It looks good on paper what happens during a fast, but the reality of how it feels and what goes on emotionally, and the individual health of the person should be taken into consideration as well.

Good luck.

[xt1]

I apologize for not taking you seriously earlier.

No apologies are needed, My friend was over 600 lbs and we went on a 1500 calorie diet together and he lost considerably more than 1 - 2 lbs per week and I can't think of his loss and unhealthy. But my question would be what makes a loss of more than 1 - 2 lbs per week unhealthy?

[xt1]

it's hard on your heart and other vital organs (no glucose for the brain - its main fuel).

From what I understand the heart prefers the use of ketones to carbohydrates anyway and even the brain after a length of time is switched to using ketones as the major fuel.

[xt1]

but the reality of how it feels and what goes on emotionally, and the individual health of the person should be taken into consideration as well.

I agree completely but I have yet to even think about that side of things yet Im still working out the physical process first :)

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I agree completely but I have yet to even think about that side of things yet Im still working out the physical process first :)

Good. Fasting isn't easy. People go through a lot. In the end though a lot of people report positive feelings, including spiritual. Many religions as I'm sure you know fast.

I think the 1 to 2 lbs a week thing is the recommendation because studies show it stays off easier. Also, the eating patterns become more ingrained and easy to stick to when done for the long haul. Rapid weight loss is so freqently followed by rapid weight gain. Almost every dieter has experienced this phenomenon.

It's very hard to stick to the 1-2 lb. thing. I started a diet that was designed for me to loose 1-2 lbs a week and I love 14 lbs in four weeks. (Gained about 7 of it back, but that's my own fault, not the diet). Usually one sees bigger weight losses in the beginning and if later on 1-2 lbs a week happens, that's still a good thing.

The problem with our society and dieters is that we want it off and we want it off quick.