the union, which represents 1,500 nurses and other workers at the north philadelphia hospital, is threatening to hold a three-day strike starting oct. 2 if a new contract is not reached by the time the current agreement expires sept. 30
we have worked many hours at the bargaining table, but the hospital seems intent on ignoring the needs of patients and the dedicated staff here at temple," said maureen may, president of the nurses' union. "nobody wants a strike, but we are concerned about the future of patient care and the retention of professional staff."
union officials said the health system wants to increase employee health-care costs and forgo its promise to cover dependents' tuition at temple university. pasnap officials said staffing levels also remain a "serious concern."...
...temple said its nurses are paid "among the highest rates" in the delaware valley, making an average hourly rate of $39.80."
it proposal for the next three years is for no increase in the first year, followed by 2 percent increases in each of the following two years. for allied health professionals, the offer is no increase this year, following by 2 percent increases in the second and third years and 2.5 percent in the fourth....
Firstly as the previous poster said in these threads there is back and forth , sometimes as we are not gifted writers comments appear harsher than was their writters intent , we all enjoy participaring in these threads and while we may disagree with a differing opinion , It is great to have this forum .
"Anyway, the bigger point I have been trying to make with all of this is that you don't need unions to get the right policies into place. Good hospitals understand what it takes to operate a successful business. A healthy administration to staff relationship, correct patient to nurse ratios, and having satisfied employees are all part of that. Unions make you believe that you need them in order for those things to happen, and that the administration is your enemy."Cabanaboy quote .
While it is true you don't need a union in all places to get the right policies etc.in place , you do need one where you have management who do not respond to patient and labor needs . In the situation where management runs the facility like a feudal manor an opening is made for a union to get in , the relationships in that situation are already adverserial , the union will and can only enforce the contract and applicable law , it is usually when management transgresses from that , that relationships deteriorate to both camps being in conflict .
Simply to clarify re . renegging . The contract between Temple and PASNAP had a clause that gave tuition to staff and their famillies , Temple took this away , that to me is renegging upon a contract .
As to you being a good future administrator ,if you reach that position I hope you will care more for how bedside nurses view their employer , than what the bottom line is ( unfortunately too many administrators care for the bottom line and nothing else ) , if you do I wish you good luck and the nurses under you will be lucky to have you .
//While it is true you don't need a union in all places to get the right policies etc.in place , you do need one where you have management who do not respond to patient and labor needs . //
Have you had experienced with this, or is this just what you've been lead to believe? Have you been unable to work with management at a non-union employer to rectify concerns? If they didn't work with you, weren't you free to go work for somewhere better, and I bet they weren't very successful and you probably wouldn't want to stay there anyway. In the case of Temple, is tuition for your children and being unable to publicly disbarrage your employer really a labor "need"?
//Simply to clarify re . renegging . The contract between Temple and PASNAP had a clause that gave tuition to staff and their famillies , Temple took this away , that to me is renegging upon a contract .//
As I understand it, they didn't "take it away", the contract expired and they don't want it in the new one. If you are insistent on working on a contract basis and reaping the benefits of a contract, then when the contract expires and that benefit is no longer available, I don't think it's fair to say they renegged on it.
//unfortunately too many administrators care for the bottom line and nothing else//
I wish you could see that the "bottom line" isn't bad. To have the best bottom line, they need to have happy employees. Successful businesses realize that. Hospitals and businesses aren't in place to provide you with a job and tuition for your kids. That isn't their purpose. Fortunately though, they need employees and happy employees to fulfill their purpose and to have a healthy bottom line. And a healthier bottom line means better job opportunities and security for the employees. It's all related.
have you had experienced with this, or is this just what you've been lead to believe? have you been unable to work with management at a non-union employer to rectify concerns? if they didn't work with you, weren't you free to go work for somewhere better, and i bet they weren't very successful and you probably wouldn't want to stay there anyway. in the case of temple, is tuition for your children and being unable to publicly disbarrage your employer really a labor "need"?
as to the first part of the paragraph , your answer is typically anti union , rather than turn tail and leave bad conditions i felt impelled to bring about change by helping organisze the facillity , now we have the union and can hold management to the applicable laws , their policies and yes the contract .the corporation remains very successful .
the tuition was removed before the contract expired and was ordered reinstated by a legal order .
i have a problem with the limiting of any free speech not just this gag order , which would eliminate the nurses ability to report problems .
i have no problem in profit , but i have a problem with it being the sole motivating force of some employers , they often act in a manner that will bring short term gain without caring about any adverse , long time effect .particularly if the change has an effect they can't quantify eg. diminished moral for staff .
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
maureen may, president of the temple nurses association stated, "we will have rns available on the picket line in the event of a genuine patient emergency to assist if requested."
i recently met a fine rn who was born the year i started at my hospital.
after 14 years our faith based community hospital was purchased by a for profit corporation traded on the stock exchange.
within a month we were told to float to areas where we were not competent, as ccu charge i was forced to begin the shift with each rn assigned to two patients and many others in the er. one night every nurse had three patients. then a patient coded upstairs and that unstable patient became the 4th assigned to one nurse.
new management brought in by corporate told us the 1:2 legal since 1976 ratio only applies at the start of the shift.
they also said, "we don't staff for 'what if's'" so although a patient was in the or undergoing open heart surgery they wouldn't plan to have a nurse available to care for him or her.
medical-surgical was even worse. 50% of the rns were laid off and replaced with "patient care partners" from dietary and housekeeping. 50% of our pharmacists were laid off.
they blamed nurses for the increase in medication errors. a friend called the california nurses association.
several hundred of us together saved our hospital.
now patients receive safe, effective, therapeutic, care delivered in a competent manner with compassion. we didn't lower our standards or quit. that former corporation is gone. we have a contract with formal ways to work with management. and we got some of our excellent nurse managers back.
have you had experienced with this, or is this just what you've been lead to believe? have you been unable to work with management at a non-union employer to rectify concerns? if they didn't work with you, weren't you free to go work for somewhere better, and i bet they weren't very successful and you probably wouldn't want to stay there anyway. in the case of temple, is tuition for your children and being unable to publicly disbarrage your employer really a labor "need"?
as to the first part of the paragraph , your answer is typically anti union , rather than turn tail and leave bad conditions i felt impelled to bring about change by helping organisze the facillity , now we have the union and can hold management to the applicable laws , their policies and yes the contract .the corporation remains very successful .
the tuition was removed before the contract expired and was ordered reinstated by a legal order .
i have a problem with the limiting of any free speech not just this gag order , which would eliminate the nurses ability to report problems .
i have no problem in profit , but i have a problem with it being the sole motivating force of some employers , they often act in a manner that will bring short term gain without caring about any adverse , long time effect .particularly if the change has an effect they can't quantify eg. diminished moral for staff .
i didn't say leaving would necessarily be the first option. changes can be made without organizing. and if they can't be done, maybe it is time to leave. and i don't see it as turning tail and running, i see it as "i'm better than this place and i'm going somewhere else." when people do that, the "bad" place will eventually and quickly be forced to change in order to keep better employees, or they will fail. i've seen it happen both ways.
what was done to try and change things before organizing? anything? it seems organizing didn't work out so well. staffing ratios are still bad, and you have some other complaints that are very serious in your mind. and you're out of work for the time being (hopefully not permanently), and patient care is being compromised because of it.
nurses can still report problems. there is an internal process for that and outside agencies they can report problems to as well. they took that out of the deal anyway. and your free speech right is never absoulute. employers eveywhere frown upon their employees disbarraging them in public and many people get fired for doing it.
renegging on the tuition was wrong. but you are not striking on that. you are striking because you want it going forward.
//"i have a problem with it being the sole motivating force of some employers , they often act in a manner that will bring short term gain without caring about any adverse , long time effect .particularly if the change has an effect they can't quantify eg. diminished moral for staff . //"
me too. and so i don't work for them, and i don't do business with them. many others feel the same way, and eventually they go away or at the least fail to meet their goals.
"Maureen May, president of the Temple Nurses Association stated, “We will have RNs available on the picket line in the event of a genuine patient emergency to assist if requested.”
Doesn't this statement give the public the impression that the nurses aren't really that crucial to patient care unless there is a "genuine patient emergency"?
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
"Maureen May, president of the Temple Nurses Association stated, "We will have RNs available on the picket line in the event of a genuine patient emergency to assist if requested."
Doesn't this statement give the public the impression that the nurses aren't really that crucial to patient care unless there is a "genuine patient emergency"?
No.
Those who have been admitted to a hospital or had loved ones who were know better than that.
Patients are admitted to the hospital for nursing care. That is the only reason for a patient to be admitted.
People who don't need nursing care don't need to be admitted to a hospital.
Sometimes a healthcare emergency occurs.
Temple management has chosen to hire temporary nurses who have not been oriented to the hospital rather than bargain with their staff.
The replacements competency has not been validated. If an emergency happens and the replacement nurses need help management can call. One or more nurses will leave the picket line and care for patients.
The goal is to get management back to the bargaining table.
From the Pennsylvania Code:
The registered nurse assesses human responses and plans, implements and evaluates nursing care for individuals or families for whom the nurse is responsible. In carrying out this responsibility, the nurse performs all of the following functions:
(1) Collects complete and ongoing data to determine nursing care needs.
(2) Analyzes the health status of the individuals and families and compares the data with the norm when possible in determining nursing care needs.
(3) Identifies goals and plans for nursing care.
(4) Carries out nursing care actions which promote, maintain and restore the well-being of individuals.
(5) Involves individuals and their families in their health promotion, maintenance and restoration.
(6) Evaluates the effectiveness of the quality of nursing care provided.
(b) The registered nurse is fully responsible for all actions as a licensed nurse and is accountable to clients for the quality of care delivered.
The union gives a 10 day notice of a pending strike. During that 10 day period hospital administration has the option to transfer critical pt to other area hospitals. There are 4 picket captains on the line at all times that administration can call and request the assistance of one or two nurses on the line that are available to help in case of emergency. The hospital was not always the best place to want to work, they could not keep good nursing staff. To recrute and retain good nurses at that time ,the hospital came up with the tuition package. It took some years, but now it is one of the" prestigious" hospitals in the city, somewhere nurses can take pride in working. After all the hard work and helping to build the reputation of the institution, the administration said no more tuition for your children with contract in hand. Had we not had the union backing/contract, we would have no recorse. However , because we are union and with contract , the labor board ruled in our favor. I am guessing but I would say maybe 50% of the nursing staff are the ones that devoted their careers here, and now that it is time to use the perk that retained them, they are being told its no longer available. It is true alot of the nursing staff has greater than 10 years of experience. it is not uncommon to hear of some with 20 years or more, having spent the majority of their time here. I ponder the thought, why was this perk being taken away from the nursing staff and not the physicians, professors and secretaries at the university? Might not have been such a hard pill to swallow.
i didn't say leaving would necessarily be the first option. changes can be made without organizing. and if they can't be done, maybe it is time to leave. and i don't see it as turning tail and running, i see it as "i'm better than this place and i'm going somewhere else." when people do that, the "bad" place will eventually and quickly be forced to change in order to keep better employees, or they will fail. i've seen it happen both ways.nice try cabanaboy ,but however you sugar coat it , it still boils down to you bravely fleeing a sinking ship , what bs. of an argument "i'm better than this place and i'm going somewhere else "' while the staff and patients sink like the titanic and your in one of the lifeboats floating away conforting yourself that you were too good ....
what was done to try and change things before organizing? anything? it seems organizing didn't work out so well. staffing ratios are still bad, and you have some other complaints that are very serious in your mind. and you're out of work for the time being (hopefully not permanently), and patient care is being compromised because of it.i haven't mentioned where i work , as another poster has said and as it has been said many times in these threads , managment is forwarned of a strike so they have time to either transfer patients and stop admitting patients to keep them out of a deteriorating situation or to hire strike breakers , its not too surprising managements choose to hire strike breakers and keepthe patients in a potentially dangerous enviroment .
i didn't say leaving would necessarily be the first option. changes can be made without organizing. and if they can't be done, maybe it is time to leave. and i don't see it as turning tail and running, i see it as "i'm better than this place and i'm going somewhere else." when people do that, the "bad" place will eventually and quickly be forced to change in order to keep better employees, or they will fail. i've seen it happen both ways.nice try cabanaboy ,but however you sugar coat it , it still boils down to you bravely fleeing a sinking ship , what bs. of an argument "i'm better than this place and i'm going somewhere else "' while the staff and patients sink like the titanic and your in one of the lifeboats floating away conforting yourself that you were too good ....
what was done to try and change things before organizing? anything? it seems organizing didn't work out so well. staffing ratios are still bad, and you have some other complaints that are very serious in your mind. and you're out of work for the time being (hopefully not permanently), and patient care is being compromised because of it.i haven't mentioned where i work , as another poster has said and as it has been said many times in these threads , managment is forwarned of a strike so they have time to either transfer patients and stop admitting patients to keep them out of a deteriorating situation or to hire strike breakers , its not too surprising managements choose to hire strike breakers and keepthe patients in a potentially dangerous enviroment .
lol! no, a bs of an argument is that you bravely organized a union for the benefit of your patients. you avoided my question of what you did to work with the hospital to improve conditions before organizing.
as to your second point, many would see it as the hospital hired replacement workers to keep operating and servicing the community. transferring patients would just be further straining the health system of that community. do the other hospitals have the room and staff to take in temple's patients? they too would likely be hiring temporary workers, and that's only if they had any room.
The union gives a 10 day notice of a pending strike. During that 10 day period hospital administration has the option to transfer critical pt to other area hospitals. There are 4 picket captains on the line at all times that administration can call and request the assistance of one or two nurses on the line that are available to help in case of emergency. The hospital was not always the best place to want to work, they could not keep good nursing staff. To recrute and retain good nurses at that time ,the hospital came up with the tuition package. It took some years, but now it is one of the" prestigious" hospitals in the city, somewhere nurses can take pride in working. After all the hard work and helping to build the reputation of the institution, the administration said no more tuition for your children with contract in hand. Had we not had the union backing/contract, we would have no recorse. However , because we are union and with contract , the labor board ruled in our favor. I am guessing but I would say maybe 50% of the nursing staff are the ones that devoted their careers here, and now that it is time to use the perk that retained them, they are being told its no longer available. It is true alot of the nursing staff has greater than 10 years of experience. it is not uncommon to hear of some with 20 years or more, having spent the majority of their time here. I ponder the thought, why was this perk being taken away from the nursing staff and not the physicians, professors and secretaries at the university? Might not have been such a hard pill to swallow.
Ponder no more, I will tell you! The other groups are either 1) have a different contract and when the time comes that issue will be dealt with or 2) more likely they aren't union employees and the hospital knows they can re-evaluate that generous perk and discontinue it whenever they deem it best for the company.
The fact that they still have it for the other groups would indicate they still want to offer it to employees. However, they don't want to be committed to it for the next 4 years to the largest group of employees. If they were to give in on that issue, and say the hospital had a bad year, would the union offer to give up that perk with the dr.s, secretaries, etc who were losing it. Heck no! Like I said earlier, with union benefits come drawbacks. In this case, you are losing that perk before others who are working under a different or no contract. You can't have it both ways.
That was a generous perk that they may feel they no longer need to offer to keep qualified employees, and that costs them and YOUR company lots of money. You talk about having recourse. Again, the purpose of a hospital is not to provide you and your family free or a discounted college education. By all means, take advantage of it while it was offered. I would. But you are naive if you think that perk was a guranteed permanent right as an employee.
Funny how the union employees are the ONLY one's responsible for making the hospital a great one and a desireable place to work, and ONLY the administration is to blame that the workers are out on strike and patient care is suffering. Aren't both sides responsible for both?
cabana boy I would accept your version if that was the facts. Simply put not the case. university professors and secretaries are under a contract. they also worked for several months without one , only recently agreed to new contract in the last6 months. i don't really know if physician have a contract or when it expires, but thet do have the tuition package. i have not had to use the tuition for my dependents, i was blessed in that my 2 college graduates(dependents) were both recepents of 4 year scholarships:yeah::yeah:.I would like to maybe use the benefit for myself, however thats not an issue. Nurses never give up because things aren't going right. In life things are bound to come up that are a struggle.We hang in there and try to work through it. If that fails we don't run and say I am better than this, we dig in deeper and make it work for the better of everyone. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. People who run when things don't go their way tend to be losers. NEWS ALERT-- Just found out physicians do have contracts.
There are 4 picket captains on the line at all times that administration can call and request the assistance of one or two nurses on the line that are available to help in case of emergency. The hospital was not always the best place to want to work, they could not keep good nursing staff. To recrute and retain good nurses at that time ,the hospital came up with the tuition package. It took some years, but now it is one of the" prestigious" hospitals in the city, somewhere nurses can take pride in working. After all the hard work and helping to build the reputation of the institution, the administration said no more tuition for your children with contract in hand. Had we not had the union backing/contract, we would have no recorse. However , because we are union and with contract , the labor board ruled in our favor. I am guessing but I would say maybe 50% of the nursing staff are the ones that devoted their careers here, and now that it is time to use the perk that retained them, they are being told its no longer available. It is true alot of the nursing staff has greater than 10 years of experience. it is not uncommon to hear of some with 20 years or more, having spent the majority of their time here. I ponder the thought, why was this perk being taken away from the nursing staff and not the physicians, professors and secretaries at the university?
Might not have been such a hard pill to swallow.
:yeah:.I would like to maybe use the benefit for myself, however thats not an issue. Nurses never give up because things aren't going right. In life things are bound to come up that are a struggle.We hang in there and try to work through it. If that fails we don't run and say I am better than this, we dig in deeper and make it work for the better of everyone. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. People who run when things don't go their way tend to be losers. NEWS ALERT-- Just found out physicians do have contracts.
cabanaboy
97 Posts
//While it is true you don't need a union in all places to get the right policies etc.in place , you do need one where you have management who do not respond to patient and labor needs . //
Have you had experienced with this, or is this just what you've been lead to believe? Have you been unable to work with management at a non-union employer to rectify concerns? If they didn't work with you, weren't you free to go work for somewhere better, and I bet they weren't very successful and you probably wouldn't want to stay there anyway. In the case of Temple, is tuition for your children and being unable to publicly disbarrage your employer really a labor "need"?
//Simply to clarify re . renegging . The contract between Temple and PASNAP had a clause that gave tuition to staff and their famillies , Temple took this away , that to me is renegging upon a contract .//
As I understand it, they didn't "take it away", the contract expired and they don't want it in the new one. If you are insistent on working on a contract basis and reaping the benefits of a contract, then when the contract expires and that benefit is no longer available, I don't think it's fair to say they renegged on it.
//unfortunately too many administrators care for the bottom line and nothing else//
I wish you could see that the "bottom line" isn't bad. To have the best bottom line, they need to have happy employees. Successful businesses realize that. Hospitals and businesses aren't in place to provide you with a job and tuition for your kids. That isn't their purpose. Fortunately though, they need employees and happy employees to fulfill their purpose and to have a healthy bottom line. And a healthier bottom line means better job opportunities and security for the employees. It's all related.