I notice some students or others seem to think that because they've heard about a nursing shortage, that means that they will get a day position in their dream unit, and be welcomed with open arms as if they are the reserve troops come to save the day.
I don't think that's really the case. You still have to take the less desirable shifts, prove yourself, be accepted by your co-workers, and earn respect. Yes, there are toxic units, and those ones are probably more in need of extra help, so you might be more likely to get a job there.
If you are a newbie, you still have to 'pay your dues' in some way, that's usually the way life works in many arenas.
i think i need to clear up something that may have been misunderstood in an earlier post i wrote.
i am not bitter, nor am i looking for a "day shift" i actually enjoy my evening shift & when i was younger (and more resiliant) the night shift in the ER was great. Both require the ability to "think outside the box" during a crisis. My comments were directed at those who think that this is about dollars and expect to walk in and know what has gone before without some understanding of how we got here!
Maybe i'm looking for a commitment to the profession, extra letters after your name don't give you all the answers, or even some of them.
And perhaps my comment should have been in a different discussion group, but i am only sharing what i have observed and heard first hand.
Ok. Now that I have waded through 14 pages of posts, I'll throw in my :two cents:
As a nurse nearing the 4-year experience mark, I'll offer the new grad -> young nurse perspective.
I think "entitlement" can be a generalization when it comes to my generation, let alone new nurses. I graduated with the full knowledge of where I wanted to work and what I needed to do to get there. I honed my resume, got certifications, and interviewed countless times. I networked to increase my opportunities.
It's great that nursing is so flexible, that we can have our pick of hours and positions to meet our needs. Ultimately nursing is a job, and we're not here to pay "dues." We are here for a career that offers the flexibility and money that we need.
This is the "go get 'em" generation. We're here, we know what we want, and we know what we need to do to get there. We don't put up with the same crap that people have put up with in nursing for generations. I think this influx of nurses will change it for the positive. Enough of the "doctors handmaidens" and "do-it-all" mentality of past nursing. This attitude is viewed as foolhardy and irritating to nurses who have come from the "Glad to have a job" generation that idealized the art of nursing.
I graduated and went straight to night shift, where I've worked almost exlusively, except for a year on days, for which I waited my turn patiently.
I got a job in my specialty as a new grad, and worked hard to excel. I would tell any new grad to do the same. Go for what you want out of life. You need to do what's best for you, not slave away paying your "dues" some people think you owe nursing society.
Granted there is a certain amount of reality that needs to hit every new grad. They need to be supported and mentored, not handed the book on nursing dues and shown the night shift schedule.
Times have changed, ladies and gentlemen.
Enough with the dues. Get what you want out of life. You'll be working for 40+ years of it.
I'm probably not the first person to say this but...
I'm 22, and I didn't expect to waltz into a job and have it be easy, and not have to work, or only get easy assignments, or never get my hands dirty. Yes, there are people my age who feel that way, but there are people in the older generations that feel as though they don't/shouldn't have to work have and save for what they want. I really feel as though the American/Western mentality of 'gimmemorecheaperfasternow' is destroying the world. It's not a generational problem, it's a societal problem.
I agree with you that that new grads should not be able to take a better shift if an existing veteran nurse desires that shift, and they should start with patient assignments appropriate for their experience level. However, I hope that as a veteran nurse, you are welcoming in the future of our profession. The brutal stress and financial struggles associated with nursing school make job-hunting, a better salary, and a new profession so exciting. Having expert nurses to mentor you as you start on the bottom rung, reinforces the career choice. We should let them get their feet wet in a supportive atmosphere. When I started my first nursing job 22 years ago I was so excited. The nurses in the ER I worked in, called us "FNG's" and actually made it a goal to make us cry. That made we wish I had become an accountant. If you are happy with yourself and your job, who cares what new nurses are wanting or getting? If you're not happy, move on.
"Paying dues" sounds so mean! Right up there with "nursing eating their young." I've been a nurse for more years than I care to think about and still work...I would like to say full-time but that went the way of nurse's caps and capes! Senority has to count for something, thus newer hires work what is offered by the employer. Nurses do not "do" this, the employer "does" this. Hospitals do not want to make us comfortable with adequate staffing, decent hours, even a "fair" number of holidays and/or weekends, unless you have a union....and then you will work hard via your negotiating team to get whatever you have.
Yes, I also have/am seeing people come into nursing that have unrealistic expectations of the role. I think TV and movies have made it "look" different than it really is. I've heard men that come into the profession say that they never realised it was such hard physical work. I think the part about always being able to get a job, especially when other professions/jobs are going away, is especially appealing to people. They don't understand there is a price to always having a job....working where you need people 24/7, including holidays...providing care in difficult, if not impossible situations with people who frequently have unreal expectations themselves.
It's too bad...we may lose as many people as we get.
I have only been a nurse for almost 4 years and I have my dream job. I am working as a traveling ICU nurse and making the $50.00 an hour. And yes I have put in my dues, but the senior nurses who gave me the toughest assignments have only made me better. I started as a new grad in an ICU and the only reason I got that job is because I worked 60 hours a weekend through-out nursing school to get the experience that was needed, so it can be done if you want it. I don't necessary agree with that "you need to pay your dues" attitude it all depends on what you want. I was originally hired for a days position and I didn't want to deal with the snobby nurse who worked on days "Day Babe's" and I also didn't want to deal with the politics, but as my orientation went on a position on nights opened up so I jumped at it and since no other nurse currently working in the unit wanted I was next in line even though I was still on orientation. The only advice that I can give to new grads is have your goals of what position you want and you have to work from the bottom up and when you don't know something ask for help, the worst thing that could happen is your told that they can't help you at that moment. I have never met anyone who said that they won't help you at all, if someone did they would be the one who looked stupid.
Here's one more. I'm entering this field as someone who has payed their dues for over 15 years in another industry. I've watched - even in that industry - as new hires and people who can kiss ass OR WHINE better than the rest of us get all the breaks while some of us are the "soldiers" who just bury our head, knuckle down and get it done when it comes time to GET IT DONE.
Now, I'm back in school. I share classrooms with these brats. And yes, I said it, that's what they are. Wasting daddy's money on an education they don't care to get for a career field they know nothing about. I understand the general disdain for the new hires that think they get day shifts during the week because, "my daddy plays golf with so-and-so..."
Here's the flip side. Not all of us came from that. I would say that most of us, have never even known that. It takes a lot of weeding through the mud to find the pearl. At my school, those of us who are kicking ass and taking names are the older students, many of whom have had successful careers in other fields before America decided that programming and design jobs were best suited for India, China and the South Asia.
Here's something else to consider. In EVERY organization, there are manager's who couldn't find their own ass with a map. They didn't earn their position, they don't know what you/we do, and they don't care. They don't care to understand medicine and they don't care to understand patient care. They care only about the Benjamin's. Then there are those who are truly great at what they do. Usually those who sacrificed partying to be the top of their class. Who donated their off time for part time gigs as teacher's assistants despite the mockery behind their backs. These are the people who work 2 jobs to put themselves through school, never miss a class, stay late for labs, and genuinely try to help their peers UNDERSTAND material instead of handing them answers.
These are also the people who won't have to wonder where they'll work or when they'll work. They know they are walking into a weekend night shift on a tough floor, but that they will be stronger nurses as a result and will be able to meet their goals because a 3 day 12 hour rotation on the weekend opens up 4 days a week for an advanced degree. By the time these people meet their education goals, they'll have the experience to go along with the student organizations and honor society affiliations and they'll get handed whatever they want because they have F'N earned it.
Time in grade and time in service doesn't mean your good at what you do. It's what you DO with that time in grade and time in service that matters. It's having patients call your boss into the room to tell them that the young man that just took care of them was the best person that they interacted with during their stay. That your bedside manner is second to none. That you put a smile on their face even though you had to perform a _______ on them.
This isn't the military, it's called life. Whether you're a student or a veteran. You owe it to yourself and to your patients to never accept anything but excellence. Both at work and at school. You owe it to your patients to be harder on yourself than anyone else ever will be. In the end, you'll be where you're supposed to be, doing what your supposed to be doing because that's the way things work out in the end.
I get damn tired of being toyed with in class because I make detailed flash cards that rival the illustrations in the text book (it helps me learn the systems), or because I'll do the extra "volunteer" work to get to pick an instructors brain for an extra couple hours.
You see, age doesn't matter as much as personality type. You have those willing to earn their keep and those that expect to have it given to them. In the end, it will be those who have earned their keep that have what they want out of life. I'll pay my dues, just as I always have and I'll see some of you - when I get there.
At the risk of being contrarian, let me offer another perspective on "FNGs," and being new to the field. Yes, of course nursing has a pecking order... and the more experienced hands generally get the best shifts, the plum jobs, and other goodies. However, this is not always for the best. Let me use an analogy from another tough field, law enforcement: Here in Chicago some years ago, a young officer, fresh from the academy, was killed in a rough neighborhood while working the night shift. Everyone, almost without exception, talked about how wonderful a guy he was, and how senseless his death was, but few people noted the obvious - that if this inexperienced police officer had been seasoned properly and not thrown into the deep end of the pool straight away, he might still be alive. Like nursing, law enforcment parcels out shifts not on the basis of who is most qualified for them, but seniority. A veteran cop might have had the skills to handle the confrontation that killed the young officer, but an experienced officer was not assigned that shift. Similarly, if you go into most major medical centers, and look at their toughest floors during the worst hours, you will likely find that these units are staffed not by the most skilled, qualified nurses, but by newbies, who have been given very rough jobs right out of the box. And we wonder why burnout is so prevalent in the profession. I know this firsthand; I worked nights on a med-surg floor after nursing school. There were precious few resources to help guys like me when the you-know-what hit the fan. Thank goodness for a few good charge nurses! Otherwise, it would have been chaos! As it was, I had to threaten to quit to get on days.
We are in the profession ultimately to serve our patients, but also benefit ourselves. Hospitals and other providers constantly tighten the screws, cutting back staff and asking everyone to do more with less, but at what point does this become counterproductive? Did anyone ever think that perhaps not all of us want 12-hour shifts? Some places have started "offering" (some offer) 16-hour shifts.
I don't mean to be the complainer, but working conditions do matter.
Perhaps we ought to innovate and offer new nurses fewer patients to start with, instead of insisting that every new grad handle 6-8 patients from the start. If that new RN or LPN gets 4 patients instead of 6 or 7, maybe he/she won't resign in frustration when things get stressful. Once that nurse gets up to speed and learns to be more efficient, then he can handle a greater load. I'd galdly accept somewhat less money in return for less stress on the job. Isn't working with 4 patients better than none? Patient ratios are a big factor in our stress levels, and in the quality of patient care generally. Forcing more patients onto already overworked nurses is not the answer, unless you are willing to trade safety for efficiency (and I for one am not). Hospitals have turned to technology - compuerized charting, etc. - to close the gap between resources and needs, but tech isn't the answer either. In certain things, there are no short cuts, and this is one of them.
Thanks for the opportunity to express my views....
Regardig night shifts, all of us should have known upon entering the field that hospital nursing is a 24/365 job. However, there is a catch. Many hospitals offer a pathetic shift differential, then wonder why no one wants to pick up nights. Working nights, or rotating shifts, involves sacrifices for many of us. Yet, employers offer a buck or two shift diff.
The one hospital in my area that offers a decent shift differential (25% over days) for nights, never is short on nights. You get what you pay for, right?
Perhaps we ought to innovate and offer new nurses fewer patients to start with, instead of insisting that every new grad handle 6-8 patients from the start. If that new RN or LPN gets 4 patients instead of 6 or 7, maybe he/she won't resign in frustration when things get stressful. Once that nurse gets up to speed and learns to be more efficient, then he can handle a greater load. I'd galdly accept somewhat less money in return for less stress on the job.
I agree with you here. If there were only a few nursing positions that everyone was fighting over, then, fine, pile it on and only let the ones who can hack it stay. But we need nurses and are losing new ones way too fast. The sink-or-swim approach isn't working if half the newbies are sinking!
But back to the topic... some thinking the nursing shortage means not having to pay dues... The thing is that it IS true in many cases. It is true that quite a few new nurses ARE able to leapfrog into positions that ideally would be filled by an experienced nurse. It is true that many organizations WILL hire and even at times specifically recruit new grads to positions that would seem to be better suited for experienced nurses.
Also realize that nursing school recruiters straight out tell prospective students that there is "so much more to nursing than bedside care" and that while getting some clinical floor experience is recommended, that it isn't a *requirement* to move into other areas of nursing. The flexibility and potential for overtime is touted as an advantage of nursing. That if you WANT extra money or if a non-traditional schedule suits you, that you have that OPTION. Prospective students aren't told much about the possibility of having *no choice* but to work night shift or some odd patchwork of a schedule.
So where exactly are students supposed to learn that they may not have much choice over their first job and the shifts they work?
I have been in Nursing for several years now (almost 20), When I trained we were hospital based, Graduated with a diploma, and then went on to university to get my degree.
What I have noticed is that some (please note I have said some) graduates, try and avoid emptying pans, or bottles or even cleaning dentures, wanting to delegate this to assisstants or enrolled nurses.
Some get upset when told they need to work Christmas or New years, weekends and shift work. I work as Clinical Specialist, whish means I work Monday to Friday office hours, althought my base rate of pay is higher, my take home pay is much lower as i don't get any penalty rates for shift work. because I am not a shift worker I get less annual leave, I don't accrue ADO's or public holidays. But I still sometimes find myself working at 8.00pm somedays.
But This is a choice I have made, so that I can be at home at regular times. In Order to get this position I worked long and hard, not only to get the skills and qualifications, but also I needed to gain the respect and credibility of my peers.
So don't think it is easy to get there or that It is always a bed roses when you do get there.
When I am at work..I give 100%. That said, do I think my job is my life? No. There is nothing wrong with "putting in 9 to 5, and going home" (I'm paraphrasing). More nurses need to do this. Your employer doesn't care about you as a person, doesn't care about your work/life/family balance. This is why YOU need to.
If this makes me a bad person in someone's eyes so be it..if someone thinks this makes me less of a nurse because I'm not willing to play Nurse Martyr, oh well. I for one am glad that the newbies are willing to look out for themselves..maybe this will give administration a badly needed wake up call
I heard today about a nurse I used to work with at my last hospital. Very knowledgeable, experienced nurse. She had given many years to this hospital and asked for a LOA..the hospital denied it despite all this nurse had done. So she quit, :yeah:got a better paying job and now they are down yet another good nurse. I'm only glad that she put her foot down and realized that the hospitals don't value loyalty and they certainly won't give their employees any.
ChaosRN777
19 Posts
i think i need to clear up something that may have been misunderstood in an earlier post i wrote.
i am not bitter, nor am i looking for a "day shift" i actually enjoy my evening shift & when i was younger (and more resiliant) the night shift in the ER was great. Both require the ability to "think outside the box" during a crisis. My comments were directed at those who think that this is about dollars and expect to walk in and know what has gone before without some understanding of how we got here!
Maybe i'm looking for a commitment to the profession, extra letters after your name don't give you all the answers, or even some of them.
And perhaps my comment should have been in a different discussion group, but i am only sharing what i have observed and heard first hand.
)O~