Socialized Medicine/Nursing

PPL, BSN, RN · Jun 29, 2000

Snickers, thanks for posting. I'm only working prn right now, but I'm going to hunt a pay stub from when I was going full time. Bunky, if you're out there, look at yours and compare it to Snicker's. It looks to me like they're stealing the shirt off her back!

PPL, BSN, RN · Jun 29, 2000

Oops! I forgot something. LRM, you are exactly correct, advocating for ourselves can only help make the nurse's and patient's experience better. Leem seems to think that we're allowing the powers that be to dictate everything, and it's not that we're not speaking out, many are, but maybe it's to the wrong people. He's right, I don't just want to ***** , but like everybody else, the fight to just do your job can sap your energy, there doesn't seem to be any fight left in me at the end of the day. Would you mind telling us a little about your pay/deductions, etc., like Snickers did? It interests me a great deal to get an idea what others are experiencing. Thank You.

bunky, BSN, RN · Jun 29, 2000

LRM it wasn't you that said "stupidity", it was Leem, but I was more responding to the idea you pointed out that we were sinking to an unethical level, when my point about education was being distorted to look like an elitist viewpoint.

PPL, I haven't got a pay stub handy at this time to make a comparison, however I most certainly will do so with Friday's pay. What you may not understand about Snickers deductions though is this: The deductions for Canada Savings Bonds is voluntary. It is the same as you buying a savings bond from your bank, only in Canada, many employers allow their employees to purchase them on a pay roll deduction plan. Canada Pension Deduction is the government retirement plan, she collects it when she turns 65 just like here. And seniors in Canada get their prescriptions for $2 each, and continue to receive healthcare. On a typical pay, her Income Tax deduction is indeed higher than mine, but if I were to add in my income tax deduction with what I pay for my health insurance, it's not all that much higher, and in terms of taxes, having paid them in both countries, you DO get what you pay for in Canada as opposed to here. Don't forget that she is getting healthcare benefits out of that money. She also likely has been the recipient at one time of the Child Tax Credit, formerly known as Baby Bonus where by parents are given a monthly sum for each child they have until that child is 18. Unemployment Insurance deduction is also a safety net which I sure don't have here! If Snickers found herself out of work tomorrow, she'd still be entitiled to 66% (Is that correct percentage Snicker?) of her wages for a period of 17 weeks (Again, is that still the time alloted Snickers?) unitl she gets herself a new job. If Snickers were to become pregnant she could take up to a year off because of that! If Snickers got hurt at work, Workmens Compensation would go so far as to pay her tuition and pay her to go back to school to retrain, and it pays her as she is seeking medical treatment for her injury, sending her to PT as well. And as you see she has UNION DUES! I'd gladly pay for that one, but here it is a four letter word and grounds for immediate dismissal. I promise to submit my pay stub for inspection and comparison purposes and we'll outline what my deductions entitled ME to compared to Snickers deductions. Snickers, I am not sure what Superannuition is though. I can in the meantime say that last year I paid over $7000 in income tax, with a gross pay of $40,500. If I were to lose my job tomorrow, I'd get nothing! I am not sure how they do your holiday pay there PPL, but mine is called PTO short for paid time off. I also have what they call EIB, or earned illness bank. I earn 7.1hrs? roughly each pay period of PTO, and 2.1hrs of EIB each pay period. Unless I am sick for 3 days, I can't touch my EIB hours! No siree, it's got to come out of my PTO, and if I don't have any then too bad. If I work a holiday, I don't get time and half! I get extra PTO hours. I'd be willing to bet that Snickers gets time and a half or better when she works a holiday, and she gets something for it even if she doesn't work it! And there are 12 times a year for holiday pay there as opposed to varies between 5 and 6 here! And are you following that Snickers gets one sick day a month that doesn't come off of her vacation pay! You heard about her other benefits too such as dental, and vision and drug benefits. And hers weren't even as generous as I've seen before either. My sister who works for a municipal government has a far better drug plan.

Snickers you don't even WANT to know about nursing homes here either! The conditions are SO bad! They are grossly understaffed, the health care aids or CNA's as they are known here usually make minimum wage, and are expected to perform backflips for it. Two of them for 30 residents on a medicare wing, many of these residents are total care, and bed bound. Decubitus City, stage fours, happen all too frequently here. It is impossible to do the work properly with that kind of staffing, and it shows. They have NO incentive to do a good job, and on those wages they can't even afford company health insurance. They suddenly don't show up for work one day, and that's the last you hear from them. Who can blame them? Having done that job in Canada for 5 years, I can say that I wouldn't have lasted more than a week here without pulling a no show. I left my job as a CNA there making $10.04 almost 11 years ago! I worked hard for that money, but nothing like what is demanded of them here, and I got benefits for it that they can't even imagine. Sure there are more nursing home beds available here but I wouldn't send my cat to one.

And PPL I talk to my family about you too! I told my sister about this debate we've been having and asked her opinion of her healthcare in Ontario, and she said that she is extremely happy with it! That is from a patients point of view too.

bunky, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2000

I found a pay stub! Here it goes:

total earnings for two weeks work

Earnings $1611.27

Deductions $541.04

What I took home was $1070 for 80 hours

Break down of what those deductions were for:

-HMO Employee and child $137.54 (that's my health insurance where I still pay a co-pay, and still pay some costs 20% for things)

-Dental employee and child $17.85 (Doesn't cover 1/4 of what yours does Snickers!)

-Longterm Disability $3.36

-Life Ins. 1xannual $1.65

-FICA-SS $89.96 (Like Canada Pension)

-FICA-MED $21.04 (for medicare when I am 65)

-FIT $249.74 (Income Tax)

-ADL FED TAX $20.00 (I have them take off an extra $20 of tax)

So, my year to date earnings on this cheque as of April were $12123.79 and my year to date net was $8035.29, with taxes being $2966.40 and other deductions being $1122.10.

Unlike Snickers, I wasn't paying into a Savings Bond. I don't have vision benefits, and I don't have REAL dental benefits like Snickers, and my drug plan has a $100 per person deductable on it per year! If me or my kids get sick, I still pay out of my pocket for some of it, and with the cost of health care here, it can be an insurmountable amount. The long term disability is a joke compared to Workman's Comp there. If I were to go out on maternity leave, (God help me then ha! ha!)I'd only be entitled to as many PTO hours as I have banked. Imagine a two week maternity leave! Although I pay American taxes, I am not entitled to receive the same benefits, like Welfare etc.

The worst thing that I see here is when I have patients and even lesser paid co workers who have things like bronchitis, and in who are in need of root canals and they suffer with it because they can't afford to go to a doctor or a dentist! One of my patients who couldn't afford to go to a dentist for a root canal wound up with pericarditis and now has a mechanical mitral valve and a hosptial bill that he'll NEVER be able to repay. Imagine Snickers not being able to go to a doctor when you need an antibiotic because you can't afford to go! Imagine what it'd be like to have a chronic condition such as one of my patients who was a frequent flyer with A-fib and an ejection fraction of 27%, who we'd treat and send out again with full knowledge that he'd be back because he wasn't able to afford ANY of the prescriptions he'd been given on discharge. I used to see this man riding around town on a bike, picking out of garbage dumpsters around apartment buildings. The poverty here is heart breaking. The difference between the have's and have not's is incredible. In Canada the welfare system may be generous to a fault, but being here, and having lived in a small very poor community, has opened my eyes to what poverty REALLY is! Welfare recipients in Canada are enviable by comparison. One of the questions I have to ask on an admit form her is whether or not they have electricity, water, or a phone! I can't even imagine what it'd be like to be poor and uninsured here Snickers. On top of being poor, having to worry about being sick would be enough to make you sick! I can't imagine what it'd be like to have a child born with a disability here either, because on top of all the rest of the sacrifces and heart aches, it's like you are penalized monetarily for it too. Going into debt up to your ears because you have a child who needs treatment. Be glad for the benefits you enjoy their Snickers!

PPL, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2000

Snicker-doodle, I come up with $1089.36 for total deductions. That would make your net= $1287.21, so my numbers don't jive with your post. What am I missing? Also, what do the following mean? Superannuation, R.N.A.B.C? Also, is the savings bond required or voluntary? I'm still looking for my full-time pay stubs. I have them SOMEWHERE! I am so interested in this, I must be obsessed!

PPL, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2000

Snicker-doodle, I come up with $1089.36 for total deductions. That would make your net= $1287.21, so my numbers don't jive with your post. What am I missing? Also, what do the following mean? Superannuation, R.N.A.B.C? Also, is the savings bond required or voluntary? I'm still looking for my full-time pay stubs. I have them SOMEWHERE! I am so interested in this, I must be obsessed!

PPL, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2000

Dear friends Addendum: I did not understand that this topic had more than one page, so now I've posted something twice, plus my explanation re same. God, I'm soooo anal!

bunky, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2000

Maybe they ripped her off PPL! So what do you think of the comparison so far? Given that she has benefits out her eyeballs. And I can answer about the savings bond. No they don't make her buy one, She's just squirrelling it away for a rainy day.

snickers · Jul 2, 2000

Hello PPL;

Sorry,I didn't include 5.00 dollars for the lotto!! !We have a staff lottery...5.00dollars comes off my cheque per pay day for that, it is a voluntary signup.Each 5.00 buys one name in the drawThey have a draw every payday, and half the money goes to the winner, half goes to the Hospital Foundation....the winner usually wins >2000.00 dollars(Non-taxable winnings), hence my numbers were off by 5.00. We also pay for parking...5.50 a payday,,however if you don't call in sick for the year then you get free parking or free coffee for a year.(I chose the free parking).I didn't include that either,It is not accounted for.

Superannuation is a municipal pension that a fulltime government employee must pay after 3 months fulltime work. So, all people who are government employees(teachers, nurses, policemen, ambulance attendants pay into this fund. After 10 years you are "locked in".That means before the 10 years, you can take out the money, but you have to quit your job to get it.,And the employer does not match the amount of money you have put in. When you retire your employer(the government) matches the amount you have contributed, and it is one of your pensions when you retire, in addition to Canada

Pension(which also kicks in when one is 60 years old and retired.)

R.N.A.B.C. stands for Registered Nurses Association Of British Columbia. It is our proffessional association here,the one who sets our standards of practice,issues us with our license to practice on an annual basis,Our annual fee for that is approximately295.00 and it is also deducted from our paycheque. We can pay it all up front if we wish, but I find it more convenient to have it taken off my pay.

Canada Savings Bonds can be purchased from the payroll savings plan aswell, aslong as one is a fulltime employee, and it is strictly voluntary. In October when you've paid off whatever you have subscribed to, then the bonds are given to you. Ideally they are kept, and each year they accrue more interest, after 7 years you get the maximum interest, and then you roll them over into RRsp.s or whatever .

There, still any basis for comparison to what you receive in $ or benefits?

Talk at ya soon.......eh?

sj.

PPL, BSN, RN · Jul 2, 2000

To hell with parking, it's coffee I want!!! Well, I had to LOL about the lotto. It sounds fun! I did find my stubs, so I can prove I DID have a steady job!!! It was a weekend package though, and now I'm just working PRN. Since '92 I've worked primarily the weekend options, then picked up some during the week when I felt like it and/or they begged. I've worked since I was twelve, doing something or other. Hey, I'll look my stubs over and post it, plus try to digest this all for comparison, then I might be moving up north, ha-ha! Bunky can pick me up on her way back! Do they have weekend option in Canada?

JillR · Jul 3, 2000

I have found an old check stub from my job and this is a break down of what I pay out for taxes, insurance, ect.

Gross Wages 1067.17

health Insurance (Taken out before taxes) 135.48

Fed Taxes 102.54

State Taxes 52.29

FICA 57.76

Medicare 13.51

Life Insurance 1.28

AR (this is a deduction for my hospital bill, automatically deducted) 30.00

Net Wages 674.31

For benefits I get 6 payed holidays a year, get payed for these whether I work them or not, so in essence I get double time for working my holidays. We also get PTO, that is earned according to the amount of time we work (pro-rated). I think I will earn about 80 hrs this year. My insurance cover vision check ups and that is all, with a $15.00 co-pay, same as office visits. Urgent care and Emercency room is a &50.00 co-pay unless you are admitted to the hospital, then the co-pay is waved. Must choose a doctor that is included in the plan, and go to certain hospital/clinic. Medications are $5.00 for generic and $10.00 for brand name, but we have the oppurtunity to send in maintanence scripts to a certain company and get three months supple for $5.00. Have available 401k plan that the employer will match up

to 5% of income but you must have 1 yr in before you can enroll in plan. We also have sickness/injury insurance provided by the employer that we can use but must be off three days first, otherwise we have to use PTO, if you have enough. We can but dental coverage which isnt very good, but I bought it anyway it covers cleaning, ect, and is only about $7.00 per pay period. Again we have a $15.00 co-pay for office visits, but covers %100 of maintenence and I think 70/30 with a deductable (not sure how much) for other things.

If we go outside the covered area for health care then there is a $1500.00 (per family) deductable per year and it only pays 70/30.

My question......Why do health care providers always have the worst health insurance and benefits?????

bunky, BSN, RN · Jul 5, 2000

Jill out of curiosity are you unionized? Snickers and PPL, what do you think? We've broken it down in terms of job expectations, protocol, working conditions, salaries, taxes, benefits. What do you guys think? PPL do you see some of the merits of the system and the advantages? Snickers, do you feel a bit happier about where you work now? We don't rake it in hand over fist down here either despite the picture that the recruiters portray. We work our asses off for every cent of what we get, and I have heard other Canadian nurses, just before they run back home, say that they feel totally exploited down here as it is quite a shock. Which side of the fence has the greener pasture overall?

I have to say that I have been treated wonderfully here overall in terms of the communitites I have lived in. People have been extremely kind to me when they hear my "accent" although I have to remind them that it is they who have the accent, not me! I've made some great friends, had some neighbours seem more like family. They all know what I am wanting when I say hand me a serviette now, and they no longer repeat "out and about" at me. Some of my kids friends even say "bum" now instead of butt! I've shared my culture with them too, inviting them over for a cup of the coveted Tim Hortons when I get a care package from home and for suppers when I cook with the scrumptous Diana BB-Q sauce. I have rubbed off on them as much as they have barged their way into my heart. Ha! Ha!

PPL, get packing! Snickers, we'll meet you at Tims for a coffee!