smoke coming out of my ears!!!

Nurses General Nursing

Published

alright everybody....i came across this in the paper and the last 2 paragraphs have me fuming....:angryfire as usual, i was turning to you guys to find out your thoughts on this.

for those of you who don't want to read the whole article...here is what has me so angry!!! :devil:

"Andrew Snyder, spokesman for Porter Memorial Health System, said an adequate number of nurses can never replace the comforting opinion of a patient's doctor or word of mouth.

"Both of those carry a heck of a lot more weight than a bunch of numbers," Snyder said."

_____________________________________________

Study shows more RNs make for healthier hospitals

PHOTO CAPTION: Donna Lewis-Allen, a registered nurse at St. Anthony Medical Center, checks on patient Edward Teffeau of Lowell during his stay at the Crown Point hospital. (John Luke / The Times)

BY JERRY DAVICH Times Staff Writer

Posted on Monday, July 8, 2002

A higher percentage of registered nurses in a hospital equates to healthier patients, shorter stays and lives saved from deadly complications, a new study confirmed.

However, local hospitals will not reveal their true patient-nurse ratios. In fact, except for St. Anthony Medical Center in Crown Point, local hospitals will not even discuss how many nurses they employ compared to the number of patients they treat.

The study, conducted by Jack Needleman, with the Harvard School of Public Health, found hospital stays are 3 percent to 5 percent shorter when nursing levels are high, and the best-staffed hospitals in the study averaged 2.7 patients per nurse, while the lower ones averaged 3.8.

Needleman estimates that hundreds, if not thousands, of deaths each year stem directly from low nursing levels.

And it's registered nurses -- the most highly skilled -- who can curb this trend and who can be the best advertising for hospitals. This is especially true in a region like ours, which has more open hospital beds than it does patients in need.

The study found no health benefits from more care by either licensed practical nurses or aides, but Carol Schuster from St. Anthony Medical Center doesn't agree.

"We firmly believe that these important health providers do make a difference," even if it's not in identifying serious complications, said Schuster, associate vice president of patient care services.

But, she noted, St. Anthony does not use LPNs or aides in its intensive care or critical care units.

Unlike other hospitals in the area, Schuster freely offered St. Anthony's nursing numbers: Overall, the hospital employs 433 RNs, 31 LPNs and 63 patient care assistants, with a daily average of 108 patients.

But Schuster pointed out that any comparison to the Harvard study would be "misleading" because the study corrected for differences in patients and their diagnoses.

St. Anthony encourages patients and their families to call with staffing questions. "And some people do," she said.

Needleman said nurses are the eyes and ears of the hospital. But observation requires time at the bedside. "Low nurse staffing is a serious problem at many hospitals. It can have severe consequences for patients."

The study showed those consequences to include hospital-acquired pneumonia, shock and cardiac arrest, gastrointestinal bleeding, urinary tract infections and deep venous thrombosis (blood clots).

The death rate also was nearly 3 percent higher for "failure to rescue," a term used to describe a patient's death from these complications.

The results were culled from 1997 data involving 799 hospitals in 11 states (covering more than 6 million patient discharges). It was analyzed to determine how staffing levels of RNs, LPNs and nursing aides compared with patient complications during their hospital stay.

The study, the most comprehensive to date, came as no surprise to nursing groups.

"These findings reinforce what we already know," said Mary E. Foley of the American Nurses Association.

Because of this, the ANA currently is lobbying Congress for passage of the Nurse Reinvestment Act, which will provide scholarships for nursing students and fund stronger recruitment programs. The bill is expected to pass any day now, according to Erin McKeon, from the ANA's government affairs office.

No local numbers available

Do patients ask about nursing numbers? It appears not to be a priority -- yet.

"Most of the time, in this acute care setting, people are concerned with what is happening directly to them, such as procedures, medications and consultations with doctors," said Donna Lewis-Allen, a St. Anthony RN.

However, as a patient's length of stay stretches out, they begin to feel better and develop a relationship with the nurses. "It's then they begin to inquire about our work environment," she said.

Lewis-Allen, who works in cardiac care, has been a nurse at St. Anthony for five years. But some RNs have been there since the hospital opened in 1974, she said.

"There is a family atmosphere here, and many of my patients say they wouldn't go to any other hospital. To me, that is the best advertising."

Local hospitals defend their refusal to discuss nurse-patient ratios by noting that many factors besides nursing come into play when choosing a hospital, including emergency admissions, specific equipment needed and physician referrals.

"Rather than across-the-board nursing ratios, patient care is a process depending on the needs of the patient," said Mary Vidaurri, senior vice president at Ingalls Memorial Hospital in Harvey, Ill.

RNs at Community Healthcare System hospitals are responsible for all aspects of direct patient care, while LPNs provide some care under the supervision of an RN, and nursing aides assist with daily activities like feeding and bathing patients, spokeswoman Mylinda Cane said.

"The staffing levels of the hospitals of the Community Healthcare System are well within regional and national benchmarks," Cane said. "Also, turnover rates at all three Community hospitals are below national averages."

The Methodist Hospitals have a "patient concern" program that offers a 24-hour help line to patients. That number is (219) 886-4290.

"Concerns are forwarded to appropriate managers, who then contact the patient," spokeswoman Carole Biancardi said.

St. Margaret Mercy Healthcare Centers President Gene Diamond did his own analysis of the Harvard study, finding that RNs composed an average of 68 percent of the nursing staff in the 799 hospitals surveyed in 1997.

But this 5-year-old data was "equalized," he noted, taking into account variations in patient population.

"Those variations, however, may not be comparable to the patient population we care for at St. Margaret Mercy," Diamond said.

Regardless, St. Margaret Mercy's two local hospitals both exceed the 68 percent average, he said, "with at least 72 percent of our nursing staff comprised of RNs."

St. Anthony's Schuster said nurse-patient ratios do not underscore the importance of patient care outcomes. These outcomes, which include having a proficient, competent nursing staff, "go well beyond the numbers," she said.

Controversy may grow

In short, local hospitals say shopping for nursing numbers shouldn't be the lone criteria. Even Needleman admitted nurse staffing is an "incomplete measure" of judging hospitals.

"I would not try to get ratio numbers and interpret them. That can be confusing," he said. "I would have a family member or close friend stay in the hospital as a patient advocate.

"The idea of fixed minimum staffing numbers remains controversial," he said. "Better we press for all hospitals to have adequate nurse staffing than think consumer pressure is going to protect our families when we need to be hospitalized.

"Patient empowerment is great, but sometimes empowerment must be directed toward collective action, not individual behavior."

The study is expected to raise concerns over the country's growing nursing shortage. Needleman hopes it prompts action from hospitals, hospital accreditation agencies, public and private payers and public policy makers.

"Patients and citizens should be pressing these organizations and agencies to assure adequate staffing."

But, the study also is expected to intensify pressure on hospitals in disclosing nursing staff numbers to the public, offering choosy consumers a new way to "kick the tires" of a hospital.

In at least one state, Pennsylvania, hospitals must report staffing levels to the state's health department, and the information also is available to the public under freedom of information laws.

Andrew Snyder, spokesman for Porter Memorial Health System, said an adequate number of nurses can never replace the comforting opinion of a patient's doctor or word of mouth.

"Both of those carry a heck of a lot more weight than a bunch of numbers," Snyder said.

Jerry Davich can be reached at [email protected] or (219) 933-3243.

Ok, of the "433 RNs, 31 LPNs, and 63 PCAs", how many are are managers and how many are actually at the bedside? Also, what happens when the "average daily" total of patients goes over 108? So many questions, so few answers.

The problem is no matter how many studies say that RNs reduce the patient's length of stay and how they do affect long term costs, the suits will never listen because they still see nurses as a large, wasteful labor pool that they can cut to save money in the short term.

As far as the stupid idiot saying MDs and word of mouth are more comforting than a nurse. Nothing. We shouldn't bother with people who so clearly don't get it and probably never will.

i like the idea of carrying around a tape recorder.

we could tape the docs saying things like:

you will be ok

its just a precaution

everything is fine

ill see you tomorrow

and whenever the pt has a problem we could just play those comforting words that work such wonders.

say for example the author of that article comes in the hospital and codes on the floor...

instead of calling a code we could just play his doc saying:

you will be ok

everything is fine

ill see you tomorrow

certainly that will go much further than anything we could do

In reading the above article through it seems to me that the last statement is merely made in relation to marketing of hospitals. I think what Snyder is saying is that if a patient's Dr. or friends talk up a hospital the patient is more likely to go there regardless of what the staffing ratios are. This is just another example of how the health care has been changed into a business where many lose.

P RN super moderator.....thx for the correction in the date of these things.....

the sad thing to say is that the public is dubious and ignorant(and I do not use ignorant in a bad way, just an uninformed and whatever the bestest powers that be tell to think way)...

I have respect for doc's (well, that is for the doc's that I respect).....but if not for the 24/7 of the nurses, patients would be lost in the great divide called medical docdom and patient is here and in need.........

no offense fellow male coworkers/nurses, but are we still just being viewed as the handmaidens of the medical profession.....at least in the eyes of the public.......

give me a tylenol is the least of what i do.....in eight to twelve + hours.......

i live at work and come home to sleep.........

good night all,

what can be done when five year old studies get put out like this and the public thinks they are brand new.........

don't wanna have a dream about this one.........;-/

Out here in good ol' British Columbia, the bedside nursing/patient ratio is 1:6. Beds get "closed" when there isn't a nurse available for that ratio. Not that I do bedside nursing myself (sorry, OR), but when we've had to cancel a patient's op because "there's no bed available" and the patient's family has a hissy fit, I have my line down pat. I'm sorry but there is no bed available for ..... Then the family says "of course there's beds available. the hospital has to provide a bed and there are vacant beds here on the wards". Yes, true, however, in order to have a patient in a bed, there has to be a nurse available to take care of them. I'm sorry, welcome to the reality of the nursing shortage. No available beds in ICU or telemetry because of lack of staff means no op.

Our "surgical short stay unit" closes the 2nd week of June and re-opens the 2nd week of September every year. The staff then are used to "staff" other nursing units. We get "no beds available", bed booking gets frantic, and the hospital "admin on call" then has to try and find staff available/willing to come in (work overtime0 to staf the sssu. Seems a waste of time to me. Better to keep the unit open and hire more staff for "permanent lines" rather than just "casual", but then, what do I know?

Just last week, there was a leukemia patient who died in the emergency room where the oncology hematologist was frantically trying to find a bed available in the lower mainland. This hit the news media, with the doc saying that there were empty beds in the hospitals, but no nurses to staff them.

Jurbyjunk, are you saying the problem is the National health system is refusing to hire full time nurses and that is the problem?

i just sent this response to the joker andrew snyder interviewed in th article:

Dear Sir:

I just read your response to the questions about about nursing staff ratios in the Times. It sounds like you should be having "0" RN"s on your staff since you feel they are of such little importance. I wouldn't want to work at your facility or be a patient there.Let alone, take care of you when you are sick. Perhaps you could have an all physician staff to care for pts. That would be even more expensive and just think of the time you wait to see a doc in his office. I am sure his/her comforting words would mean little as you waited for your pain shot or bedpan. You may need your doctor soon Mr. Snyder TO PERFORM SURGERY TO REMOVE THAT FOOT THAT'S SUCK IN YOUR MOUTH.

Your arrogance is appalling and you owe your nursing staff an apology. Your response is evidence of what many bedside nursing staff have known for years, administration is totally out of the loop when it comes to having a clue about what we do. Nursing is not merely a cost center within the hospital, it is the core provider of both pt. care and public relations. If you have poor nursing care, your reputation suffers. You know this. As nurses we are currently bombarded by demands from administration that we be friendly, caring, and have the "right" attitude even while administrators tell us we can do more with less staff. If your hospital has a good reputation, you should give credit to your nursing staff, because I guarantee you that it is in large part due to their skill and dedication. Isn't the mission of your hospital, patient care, Mr Snyder? And who provides that care?

Specializes in OB, M/S, ICU, Neurosciences.

Hi All--

I also was incensed by the comments made by Mr. Snyder at the end of this article. In fact, I have been considering a job within the Porter system, but will now have to think twice about it. Here is the response I emailed to Jerry Davich just this morning:

____________________________________________________

"Andrew Snyder, spokesman for Porter Memorial Health System, said an adequate number of nurses can never replace the comforting opinion of a patient's doctor or word of mouth.

'Both of those carry a heck of a lot more weight than a bunch of numbers,' Snyder said."

Mr. Davich,

What a comment! And what a shame that your publication saw fit to publish that statement! If Mr. Snyder truly speaks for the Porter Memorial Healthcare System, then I hope that I, nor anyone I know is ever a patient there.

The implication that the god-like PHYSICIAN can breeze into a room for a total of 30 seconds and leave the patient feeling so much better about his/her situation is a forifice. As a RN, I spend a significant amount of time explaining and clarifying what the physician has said to the patient--patients don't necessarily hear everything a physician says during his/her brief appearance in the patient's room. The time that RNs spend in the aftermath of the physician visit is usually what leaves the patient with a clearer understanding of what is going on with them, what the treatment plan is, and what they can expect to experience. It sounds to me as though Mr. Snyder needs to make some rounds with attending physicians, followed by shadowing a RN after the physician visit, to see how this process REALLY works. The "bunch of numbers" he refers to are, in fact, partners to the physician to assist him/her in providing the necessary care to his/her patients. We are the integral link between patient and physician for the purpose of assessment, education, support, and information, not to mention direct, hands-on care. I am also stymied by his reference to "word of mouth" being more comforting than a "bunch of numbers". If my neighbor tells me that she had excellent care at Porter Memorial, what does that mean? I still believe that the RN to patient ratios are meaningful in relation to the skill and knowledge of the personnel involved in caring for patients. I resent Mr. Snyder's comment, which would indicate that the Porter Memorial Healthcare System places little value on its staffing, and relies far more on the opinions of the community and former patients in promoting the system. The best advertising in the world cannot replace the care rendered by a competent and caring nurse--PERIOD!

I would like to see Mr. Snyder amend his statement after receiving some education regarding the manner in which physicians and nurses function as partners in healthcare. His blatant ignorance is a black mark on the otherwise excellent reputation that Porter Memorial has in the Northwest Indiana community.

____________________________________________________

Please, everyone, send a piece of your mind to Mr. Davich--NW Indiana needs to know how valuable RNs are, since Porter Memorial is one of the bigger healthcare providers in the region.

Thanks,

Suzanne

BRAVO !!!! BRAVO !!!! BRAVO !!!!:)

Specializes in OB, M/S, ICU, Neurosciences.

I received a reply from the author of the article from the NW Indiana Times. He said a clarification of the spokesman's comments would be in today's edition. Shannon--did you or anyone else who might be in this area see the paper today? I'm working and haven't seen it yet. Let's hope it was emrely a comment taken out of context!

i read the paper today and i didn't see an addendum or anything along those lines...but maybe i wasn't looking close enough. i will scour my paper and see what i can find.

i also sent a email with an attachment of the article to the ana and they said they would be pursuing the issue. :)

okay guys, i've looked through my paper and searched their website...haven't come across anything....maybe i am just having a massive brain fart?! bestblond, if you find it i would appreciate the link or the letter. i would like to send the article to the ana. if you guys are interesting in searching the newspaper site it is http://www.thetimesonline.com :wink2:

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