SARS in Toronto!

[TX Guy]

Hey I just saw on the news that a thousand people have been quarentined at a hospital in Toronto!

Do you all know anything about this?

I hope our Toronto members are alright.

Is this virus realy something to be worried about or is it kind of being hyped like the shark attack thing?

Paul

[epaminondas]

"What I'm doing right here, right now, is sending out a message to this CDC group, whoever the hell they are," he said.

"Who? WHO, sorry. Well, who's the CDC? Oh. OK. The WHO. And the message I'm sure will reach them through you (is) that I dare them, I dare them, to be here tomorrow."

- Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman at a news conference, reacting to the WHO decision to impose a travel advisory on Toronto; April 23. >>

I suppose that the above plays well in Canada, but I doubt that it inspires a tremendous amount of confidence in the rest of the world.

The mayor who's city is in the center of this health crisis - I believe that the count is three dead and eight new cases today, alone (4/25/03) - does not even know the difference between the CDC and the WHO.

To me his words sound more like the bluster of a boxer prior to the big match than it sounds like the thoughtful and measured wisdom of a man to whom a traveller or tourist would wish to entrust his health.

Mel Lastman is not hurting the WHO by intemperate statements. Not one little bit.

He is only increasing the WHO's stature, if only in contrast.

The worse he makes himself look, the more he makes the WHO look good - while he further damages the reputation of Toronto in the eyes of the world in the process.

But I guess it must play well in Toronto.

________________________________

- WHO director-general Gro Harlem Brundtland, after telling Canada's Health Minister Anne McLellan the organization will not lift a travel advisory against non-essential travel to Toronto; April 24, 2003. >>

The above statement sounds like it actually comes from an adult.

I think again of Mayor Lastman's inflammatory statements.

This is the man who is leading Toronto?

Can you imagine the two of these men - Lastman and Brundtland - talking to each other on the telephone and trying to come to some sort of reasoned agreement about the WHO travel advisory?

One can almost overhear the indignant shouting and shoe pounding from the Canadian end -

And the long but terribly meaningful silence from Vienna side of the call.

________________________________

There now appear to be two definite cases of SARS exportation from Canada to other countries: the U.S. and The Philippines.

Exportation of SARS remains one of the three rationales for the WHO travel advisory in regard to Toronto.

From inside the fence in Toronto there does seem to be a tendency for the WHO travel advisory to be treated in much of the Canadian press as an egregious outrage - the WHO is viewed as politicized, incompetent, and totally uninformed. Toronto the innocent victim of the WHO. What were they thinking, those WHO idiots? Who does the WHO think they are? Uh - who is the WHO, anyway?

Here on the outside of the fence, however - particularly from those of us who would prefer not to become an integral part of the "new normal" in the delivery of health care - the WHO advisory may look a bit different than it does in Toronto. A bit calmer. Even prudent. Sensible. Wise.

Both points of view are easy to understand. Neither is necessarily right or wrong - a whole lot just depends where you are standing.

If I were a native of Toronto I'd probably be outraged at the WHO, as well.

But here I am - back from work - where I wore no mask, no goggles, and had no particular fear of breaking protocol - and I'd like to keep things that way, if it is at all possible.

If a travel advisory in regard to Toronto may help - I am all for it.

The dedication of Toronto's front line health care workers has been exemplary.

The actions of the politicians may leave something to be desired.

__________________________________________________

Sotty,

It looks like the Philippines case has been confirmed as SARS. The report you quote was originally a Reuters feed posted directly from Manila, 4/25/03:

Philippines confirms first deaths from SARS

By John O'Callaghan

MANILA, April 25 (Reuters)

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2630284

_______________________________________________

Another version of the Philippine SARS story:

SARS Virus Spreads in Asia, Canada's Toll Climbs

By Russell Blinch and Benjamin Kang Lim

TORONTO/BEIJING, April 25 (Reuters)

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2633925

____________________________________________________________

Case report on another Toronto export - the Pennsylvania SARS patient - as per the CDC:

. . . The patient had traveled to Toronto, Canada, for a religious retreat during March 29--30; the event has been linked to subsequent SARS cases among the attendees . . . >>

MMWR

April 25, 2003 / 52(16);357-360:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5216a1.htm

____________________________________________________________

Canadian commentary:

WHO made us take disease seriously

The Toronto Star

THOMAS WALKOM

Apr. 25, 2003.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1051125556139&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

WHO knows what's happening

The Toronto Star

JUDY GERSTEL

Apr. 25, 2003

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1051125555475

Canadian Prime Minister responds to the SARS crisis by pledging $10 million for marketing (I'm not kidding - E.):

Apr. 25, 2003. 12:21 PM

The Toronto Star

RENE JOHNSTON

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien breaks SARS silence, pledges $10M

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1051308228482&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

The man who is running Toronto:

Mayor's gaffe-ridden CNN appearance draws ridicule

FROM CANADIAN PRESS

Apr. 25, 2003. 06:27 PM

http://thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1051265673448&call_pageid=1049194989222&col=1051265660049

______________________________________________

People in Clinical Care are trained to be patient advocates. The patient comes first.

People in Public Health are trained to place society first, not the individual patient: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.

These are very different approaches. They can come into conflict.

The WHO, of course, bears the mantle of the Public Health approach.

You try placing someone into forced quarantine and see how he likes it.

Just stay out of spitting distance.

I've never been involved in STD contact tracing - but I always thought that that would be quite a trip.

Public health workers who are involved in forced quarantine work are used to having to be the heavy. To being unpopular. To being vilified. To being hated.

No problem.

It's just part of the job description.

Toronto has taken on the WHO. Direct attack - all guns blaring. But the WHO is way ahead of that curve.

By hundreds and hundreds of years.

Such attacks are a lot of what public health work is all about.

They are expected.

That is basic Public Health 101.

No surprises, there.

Lastman is in way over his head.

The WHO has much bigger fish to fry than the folks in Toronto.

(1) China. People say it's a big place.

(2) What is going to get really interesting is if the WHO eventually has to lay down a travel advisory on the good ol' U.S. of A.

I wonder if Bush would actually bomb Geneva?

I wonder if Bush could find Geneva on a map?

He just might, ya know.

Last I heard, despite all the ruckus, Toronto is still not screening airline passengers.

The result? Well:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/sars_travelwarnings.html

Simple as that.

Maybe Canadian politicians should try just cooperating with the WHO.

You know - like the rest of the world.

To your health -

Epaminondas

______________________________________

Bangladesh is ready:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2946277.stm

[epaminondas]

"What I'm doing right here, right now, is sending out a message to this CDC group, whoever the hell they are," he said.

"Who? WHO, sorry. Well, who's the CDC? Oh. OK. The WHO. And the message I'm sure will reach them through you (is) that I dare them, I dare them, to be here tomorrow."

- Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman at a news conference, reacting to the WHO decision to impose a travel advisory on Toronto; April 23. >>

I suppose that the above plays well in Canada, but I doubt that it inspires a tremendous amount of confidence in the rest of the world.

The mayor who's city is in the center of this health crisis - I believe that the count is three dead and eight new cases today, alone (4/25/03) - does not even know the difference between the CDC and the WHO.

To me his words sound more like the bluster of a boxer prior to the big match than it sounds like the thoughtful and measured wisdom of a man to whom a traveller or tourist would wish to entrust his health.

Mel Lastman is not hurting the WHO by intemperate statements. Not one little bit.

He is only increasing the WHO's stature, if only in contrast.

The worse he makes himself look, the more he makes the WHO look good - while he further damages the reputation of Toronto in the eyes of the world in the process.

But I guess it must play well in Toronto.

________________________________

- WHO director-general Gro Harlem Brundtland, after telling Canada's Health Minister Anne McLellan the organization will not lift a travel advisory against non-essential travel to Toronto; April 24, 2003. >>

The above statement sounds like it actually comes from an adult.

I think again of Mayor Lastman's inflammatory statements.

This is the man who is leading Toronto?

Can you imagine the two of these men - Lastman and Brundtland - talking to each other on the telephone and trying to come to some sort of reasoned agreement about the WHO travel advisory?

One can almost overhear the indignant shouting and shoe pounding from the Canadian end -

And the long but terribly meaningful silence from Vienna side of the call.

________________________________

There now appear to be two definite cases of SARS exportation from Canada to other countries: the U.S. and The Philippines.

Exportation of SARS remains one of the three rationales for the WHO travel advisory in regard to Toronto.

From inside the fence in Toronto there does seem to be a tendency for the WHO travel advisory to be treated in much of the Canadian press as an egregious outrage - the WHO is viewed as politicized, incompetent, and totally uninformed. Toronto the innocent victim of the WHO. What were they thinking, those WHO idiots? Who does the WHO think they are? Uh - who is the WHO, anyway?

Here on the outside of the fence, however - particularly from those of us who would prefer not to become an integral part of the "new normal" in the delivery of health care - the WHO advisory may look a bit different than it does in Toronto. A bit calmer. Even prudent. Sensible. Wise.

Both points of view are easy to understand. Neither is necessarily right or wrong - a whole lot just depends where you are standing.

If I were a native of Toronto I'd probably be outraged at the WHO, as well.

But here I am - back from work - where I wore no mask, no goggles, and had no particular fear of breaking protocol - and I'd like to keep things that way, if it is at all possible.

If a travel advisory in regard to Toronto may help - I am all for it.

The dedication of Toronto's front line health care workers has been exemplary.

The actions of the politicians may leave something to be desired.

__________________________________________________

Sotty,

It looks like the Philippines case has been confirmed as SARS. The report you quote was originally a Reuters feed posted directly from Manila, 4/25/03:

Philippines confirms first deaths from SARS

By John O'Callaghan

MANILA, April 25 (Reuters)

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2630284

_______________________________________________

Another version of the Philippine SARS story:

SARS Virus Spreads in Asia, Canada's Toll Climbs

By Russell Blinch and Benjamin Kang Lim

TORONTO/BEIJING, April 25 (Reuters)

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2633925

____________________________________________________________

Case report on another Toronto export - the Pennsylvania SARS patient - as per the CDC:

. . . The patient had traveled to Toronto, Canada, for a religious retreat during March 29--30; the event has been linked to subsequent SARS cases among the attendees . . . >>

MMWR

April 25, 2003 / 52(16);357-360:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5216a1.htm

____________________________________________________________

Canadian commentary:

WHO made us take disease seriously

The Toronto Star

THOMAS WALKOM

Apr. 25, 2003.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1051125556139&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

WHO knows what's happening

The Toronto Star

JUDY GERSTEL

Apr. 25, 2003

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1051125555475

Canadian Prime Minister responds to the SARS crisis by pledging $10 million for marketing (I'm not kidding - E.):

Apr. 25, 2003. 12:21 PM

The Toronto Star

RENE JOHNSTON

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien breaks SARS silence, pledges $10M

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1051308228482&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

The man who is running Toronto:

Mayor's gaffe-ridden CNN appearance draws ridicule

FROM CANADIAN PRESS

Apr. 25, 2003. 06:27 PM

http://thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1051265673448&call_pageid=1049194989222&col=1051265660049

______________________________________________

People in Clinical Care are trained to be patient advocates. The patient comes first.

People in Public Health are trained to place society first, not the individual patient: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.

These are very different approaches. They can come into conflict.

The WHO, of course, bears the mantle of the Public Health approach.

You try placing someone into forced quarantine and see how he likes it.

Just stay out of spitting distance.

I've never been involved in STD contact tracing - but I always thought that that would be quite a trip.

Public health workers who are involved in forced quarantine work are used to having to be the heavy. To being unpopular. To being vilified. To being hated.

No problem.

It's just part of the job description.

Toronto has taken on the WHO. Direct attack - all guns blaring. But the WHO is way ahead of that curve.

By hundreds and hundreds of years.

Such attacks are a lot of what public health work is all about.

They are expected.

That is basic Public Health 101.

No surprises, there.

Lastman is in way over his head.

The WHO has much bigger fish to fry than the folks in Toronto.

(1) China. People say it's a big place.

(2) What is going to get really interesting is if the WHO eventually has to lay down a travel advisory on the good ol' U.S. of A.

I wonder if Bush would actually bomb Geneva?

I wonder if Bush could find Geneva on a map?

He just might, ya know.

Last I heard, despite all the ruckus, Toronto is still not screening airline passengers.

The result? Well:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/sars_travelwarnings.html

Simple as that.

Maybe Canadian politicians should try just cooperating with the WHO.

You know - like the rest of the world.

To your health -

Epaminondas

______________________________________

Bangladesh is ready:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2946277.stm

[oramar]

One question, is the WHO advisory about Toronto or all of Canada? I am asking because if a similar problem occurs in NY or San Fransisco I am wondering if they will make advisory about whole country or state by state. I will stick with the CDC advisory in both cases, I think they have better understanding of the people and geograpy.

[oramar]

One question, is the WHO advisory about Toronto or all of Canada? I am asking because if a similar problem occurs in NY or San Fransisco I am wondering if they will make advisory about whole country or state by state. I will stick with the CDC advisory in both cases, I think they have better understanding of the people and geograpy.

[steven44121]

It is for Toronto. It is to be revisited this Tuesday.

I have changed my vacation plans. Now planning on spending a few days in a nice hotel downtown T.O., take in The Lion King, take the ferry to the islands and head to china town for dinner.

[steven44121]

It is for Toronto. It is to be revisited this Tuesday.

I have changed my vacation plans. Now planning on spending a few days in a nice hotel downtown T.O., take in The Lion King, take the ferry to the islands and head to china town for dinner.

[sixes]

good morning everyone.

torontorn -

thank you for replying to my question. i will keep in mind that newspapers are really self serving and that the bottom line most times is to sell papers.

i have no magic trick to posting links. i just very carefully jot down on paper what the ?url is. it appears either in the address line or on the toolbar(grey) part at the bottom of the screen and then i carefully type them in one by one . i know there is a way to copy them but i am computor stupid and can't figure it out.

perhaps one of our more knowledgeable friends on the board could give us step by step instructions for us beginners. they also seem to be able to copy the story onto the board also.

scotty-

thank you for the link it was very interesting.

epaminondas-

i think you should think a little about the travel ban i con't know where your from, but this is having a huge impact on the economy and our health care. there are millions of people being affected by this. china town in toronto is suffering unnecessarily(sp?). very sick people are being deprieved of their loved ones,many more who are waiting life saving treatments are on hold(although it seems to be easing)i personally don't believe that a travel ban is necessary. there have been no community transmissions in the last 19 days or so. also ever confirmed sars case can be linked to the clusters from one hospital where the people brought the disease back with them from china.

last of all in my opinion, unless you plan on visiting one of the hospitals, you are more likely to be run over by a cab or struck by lightening, our be mugged then to catch sars while visiting toronto.

reviews a go

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0003.html

70% of gta think who did us wrong

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0004.html

masked men miss the point

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0005.html

elton, billy bail out on acc show

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0006.html

chretien gets on who's case

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0007.html

safe to travel

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0041.html

lastman show a laugh, man

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0043.html

skating pair a class act

http://www.cnaoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0044.html

a lack of faith

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0045.html

biz losses snowball

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0048.html

light at end of tunnel ( nurse's side)

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0050.html

[sixes]

good morning everyone.

torontorn -

thank you for replying to my question. i will keep in mind that newspapers are really self serving and that the bottom line most times is to sell papers.

i have no magic trick to posting links. i just very carefully jot down on paper what the ?url is. it appears either in the address line or on the toolbar(grey) part at the bottom of the screen and then i carefully type them in one by one . i know there is a way to copy them but i am computor stupid and can't figure it out.

perhaps one of our more knowledgeable friends on the board could give us step by step instructions for us beginners. they also seem to be able to copy the story onto the board also.

scotty-

thank you for the link it was very interesting.

epaminondas-

i think you should think a little about the travel ban i con't know where your from, but this is having a huge impact on the economy and our health care. there are millions of people being affected by this. china town in toronto is suffering unnecessarily(sp?). very sick people are being deprieved of their loved ones,many more who are waiting life saving treatments are on hold(although it seems to be easing)i personally don't believe that a travel ban is necessary. there have been no community transmissions in the last 19 days or so. also ever confirmed sars case can be linked to the clusters from one hospital where the people brought the disease back with them from china.

last of all in my opinion, unless you plan on visiting one of the hospitals, you are more likely to be run over by a cab or struck by lightening, our be mugged then to catch sars while visiting toronto.

reviews a go

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0003.html

70% of gta think who did us wrong

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0004.html

masked men miss the point

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0005.html

elton, billy bail out on acc show

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0006.html

chretien gets on who's case

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0007.html

safe to travel

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0041.html

lastman show a laugh, man

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0043.html

skating pair a class act

http://www.cnaoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0044.html

a lack of faith

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0045.html

biz losses snowball

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0048.html

light at end of tunnel ( nurse's side)

http://www.canoe.ca/torontonews/ts.ts-04-26-0050.html

[Scotty]

My hospital had a suspected SARS case the other day, a false alarm. I only heard about it through the media. I thought it would scare me but it didn't. Maybe because we've just moved from a crumbling Victorian pile to brand new facilities with proper isolation rooms and not a moment too soon.

Have you read about the new avian 'flu bug in Europe? Doesn't seem to be a problem for humans (except for the poor vet). It's on the WHO website.

[Scotty]

My hospital had a suspected SARS case the other day, a false alarm. I only heard about it through the media. I thought it would scare me but it didn't. Maybe because we've just moved from a crumbling Victorian pile to brand new facilities with proper isolation rooms and not a moment too soon.

Have you read about the new avian 'flu bug in Europe? Doesn't seem to be a problem for humans (except for the poor vet). It's on the WHO website.

[ainitfunny]

please do not get mad at me for saying this. i do know that 99% of you already know this but there may be just one person who does not know who could be saved from making a mistake.

if you are given access to two types of n-95 masks, never, never put the kind with the little valve on the front on a potentially infected person to try to limit contagion from them. the kind with the little plastic valve on the front is only for healthy people, because it allows all the wearers germs to be freely exhaled unfiltered.

[ainitfunny]

please do not get mad at me for saying this. i do know that 99% of you already know this but there may be just one person who does not know who could be saved from making a mistake.

if you are given access to two types of n-95 masks, never, never put the kind with the little valve on the front on a potentially infected person to try to limit contagion from them. the kind with the little plastic valve on the front is only for healthy people, because it allows all the wearers germs to be freely exhaled unfiltered.