Rush University.....no more??

They're moving from a BSN program to a master's entry program for people who have a degree in a field other than nursing. From what I gathered, they looked at the field of nursing and decided that more people (who already have a degree) would be interested in obtaining a master's instead of going back to get a second bachelors. They're hoping this will draw more people into the field of nursing (instead of having them go to another area of health where they would receive a master's for their continued education), and they want to prepare these nurses for leadership...I think the new program has a stronger emphasis on leadership, but I'm not sure on the specifics.

That being said, I think they're still going to offer the RN-BSN (or RN-MSN) program, but don't quote me on that.

Hi There...

I attended an info session last summer, a little while after the announcement was made that Rush was literally cancelling out their BSN (and ABSN) and starting a program called Clinical Nurse Specialist Masters Degree. The guy who introduced the program said it as if there was a light shining on him, and thunder and lightening.:icon_roll

When I asked the gentleman who introduced the program that, given the competition that their graduates will have with other BSN graduates, and Nurse Practioner graduates down the street at UIC, he stated "this program is on the forefront of nursing. It is so on the forefront, that no one knows how much they will be needing Clinical Nurse Specialists." Huh??? Pardon me, but if I am spending two years and $60,000 on a Masters Degree, I would prefer it be a CRNA or a NP program, so I can be sure that it will be in DEMAND, and, most of all, USEFUL.

I asked the gentleman several questions tied in with the competition, how useful a CNS Masters degree is TODAY, not twenty years from now, etc, and basically the guy had no other way to answer my questions besides getting defensive and repeating his "forefront of nursing" speech. I've also done research on my own on the AACN website, and I haven't come up with much that has made me want to do that masters, instead of CRNA or Nurse Practictioner.

The GEM isn't supposed to replace a CRNA or NP program. Graduates from the GEM program will have a masters, but the only licensing exam they can take is the NCLEX. The idea is that nurses from the program will be better trained for leadership positions. You would still have to go through another masters (or post-masters? I'm not quite sure how it works) if you want to be a NP or CRNA.

I'm not exactly sure why you want the GEM over a BSN program, but they did keep saying how you would be "on the forefront of nursing," like you said. Maybe it would prepare you better for an advanced practice career? I don't know enough to comment on that.

Um, most clinical nurse specialist positions were wiped out in hospital budgets in the 1990s when hospitals were trying to slash RN staff numbers to save $$$$. Surely Rush knows that. Maybe they're jumping on the direct entry bandwagon, but want to offer a more general (and slightly shorter) degree than the usual DE MSN NP or CNM oriented program, in order to attract more students? I think DePaul offers a similar, if not the same, type of degree.

I went to school there in the late 1980s and would have been a perfect DE candidate were one available at the time -- liberal arts graduate, graduate degree from top 10 local university. There were about 10 of us in our class with degrees and/or careers in other fields; they grouped us together through clinicals and such. We were able to enter and do junior-senior year of the BSN and graduate in under 2 years. There were so many open slots for students and seemed so easy to get in; there just weren't as many people interested in nursing then, I got in at the last minute without any problem. They were handing out those tuition scholarships right and left. At the time Rush was at the forefront of primary nursing: the staff RNs each had 3 pts on days and gave complete care. Then I worked there in late 1990s and they had completely thrown primary nursing out the window and replaced it with team nursing and larger pt loads. My, things come around, don't they?

Hi Selke!

After the program at Rush, did you reloate to Chicago?

Hi Gogatsby!

I got the impression during the information session at Rush for the CNS program that they were designing it to compete with NP's and other Generalist Masters Degrees, not necessarily to replace those programs.

My point though is, I was trying to decipher how competitive the CNS degree from Rush would actually be, and he could not really answer my question about that.

I am not sure how competitive it will be, but DePaul has had a direct Masters entry for 5 years. And I think Rush looses some students to them because of it. When you are done at DePaul you have an MS RN, some consider it a MSN. But you are not APN. You must go an addtional 6 months or so to get the APN. Still a TON shorter time rather than getting the BSN and then an MSN/APN.

Additionally DePaul partners with Evenston NWM to do the Nurse Anes. program, so after the MS RN, you can direct entry into that program with a year of experice in ICU and so on.

Depending on your long term goals - either school could work for you. DePaul is cheaper too 50K not 60K.

Hi Living the Dream!

I am not exactly sure of the cost of Rush's program, I just put $60K for argument's sake. I really would need to research it to be sure.

Are you sure its a CNS rather than CNLclinical nurse leader? I'm a CNS in IL and we are all grouped as APNs and I've found it to employable.

It is CNL; see below:

http://www.rushu.rush.edu/nursing/degreeopt.html

Perhaps someone more in the know than myself can clarify the roles of CNS/CNL. No wonder it is confusing to people, the names are so similar!

i don't think it's a cnl either dianacs. cnl is a certificate that you can sit for after completion of the generalist masters, as well as rn licensure. so, the degree is:

• coming in summer 2008 - generalist entry masters (gem) with a focus in clinical leadership

for some reason i remember it as cns, but actually it's an msn, with a focus in clinical leadership.

rush does have a clinical specialist masters degree, but that is not to be confused with their new gem program.

I've noticed that the AACN has denounced the CNL in favor of the CNS. The CNL does nothing to advance the practice of nursing in anyway, and I agree with their position. All the CNL does is cloud the already murky waters of nursing education, particularly at the graduate level, and confuse the other members of the health team and indeed the public further. To add note, there seems to be a heavy push recently for the DNP...if there is a huge need for nurse faculty, why isn't there a heavier push toward the Ph.D.? Isn't that THE top academic degree?

I just don't see the need for the CNL as long as there are CNS programs. Many programs are incorporating NP and CNS together do that the graduate can have both designations...talk about marketable!

Oh well...my 2 cents...

Jeff

Hello, Everyone, and thank you for your interest in what's going on at Rush University College of Nursing. I would like to take this opportunity to respond to some of the questions raised in this thread of conversation.

As Director of Generalist Education at RUCON, I am in charge of the newly developed GEM (Generalist Master's Entry) program. The decision to transition to this degree (and away from BSN education) was taken very seriously by the faculty and was based on market and resources demands, but more importantly where the College felt it could best position to provide the best educated nurses for the profession and society.

The GEM will prepare Clinical Nurse Leaders. These invidiuals will be prepared to provide clinical leadership at the point of care. They will have the knowledge to direct, implement, and evaluate nursing care in a microsystem (i.e., unit) of care, whether inpatient on in the community. Their leadership knowledge will focus on quality improvement, evidenced-based nursing, informatics, and ensuring systems of safety for a cohort of patients/clients. These individuals will be advanced generalists, not specialists, which is what the CNS (Clinical Nurse Specialist) is.

The CNS is an advanced practice nurse with specialized knowledge in the care of a particular population of patients. They have a breadth and depth of knowledge the CNL will not have. The CNL's 'specialized knowledge' is leadership: how to coordinate care, build teams, improving the quality and consistency of patient care. All of these areas have been identified by the Institute of Medicine as areas that must be addressed in the current healthcare system in this country. To that end, this program will be on the forefront of fundamentally changing the architecture of the American Health Care System. The graduate of Rush's program will be eligible for both the NCLEX and the CNL certification examination.

I would be happy to speak to anyone who might have any questions about the program or our decision to change. Please feel free to contact me at [email protected].

Thanks for your time and interest!