RN's in the scrub role

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Nov 13, 2004

Not an RN, but where i work, the RNs are trained to scrub. All of them can scrub.

All of our RNs are CNOR as well.

angel03 · Nov 13, 2004

I am hoping that my future-fellow nurses will help me out here. I am writing a persuasive paper for my leadership class and want to persuade people that OR nurses should be trained to scrub. That it should be included in their orientation to the OR. The OR that I have been as an ST for the past 12 years does not include much, if any, scrubbing. The nurses may get one or two days and that is all. What I am looking for are your comments and opinions about why you, as a circulating nurse believe you should or should not be trained to scrub. Please also let me know if you are CNOR.
Thank you from a future OR nurse!! :balloons:

I am a CNOR..... have been scrubbing alot lately only because I show an intrest and ask to all the time.......it is a definate asset to scrub makes a better circ.

valeriern · Nov 14, 2004

I am CNOR and RNFA but I have very little scrub experience and I would love to have a seasoned scrub (RN, LPN, or ST) teach me how to scrub. It think it would make me a better circulator and assist. In my hospital we mostly use OR techs to scrub and the RNs were used to circulate and monitor on the CS cases.

shodobe · Nov 14, 2004

I am CNOR and RNFA but I have very little scrub experience and I would love to have a seasoned scrub (RN, LPN, or ST) teach me how to scrub. It think it would make me a better circulator and assist. In my hospital we mostly use OR techs to scrub and the RNs were used to circulate and monitor on the CS cases.

I would hope that you are not wasting your time working at this hospital. You need to find somewhere that will allow you to practice as an RNFA. To answer the question posted, I am CNOR and have been scrubbing for 28 years. We have an all RN staff, except for the token tech we have, and ALL new hires are required to learn how to scrub. If you are a strong circulator and a poor scrubber you will not work at our hospital, no exceptions!. All RNs should scrub and if you go through the past threads you will come across a rather long response from a variety of people. Happy hunting, Mike

carcha · Nov 16, 2004

Mary, for my part the answer is simple. I am a perioperative nurse. Basically this means I apply theory and practice in all aspects of OR care. I am as competent in scrubbing for an AAA, as I am in assisting the anaesthetic provider during a craniotomy. I am as efficient in circulating for a laparotomy as I am in organizing the operating list for the day for ENT. Any OR nurse who is unable to perform all his or her or duties cannot truly call themselves a perioperative care provider. So therefore my opinion is there is no excuse for someone to work in the or and not scrub. To me it should be mandatory.

mcmike55 · Nov 17, 2004

I agree that working in the OR, you should be able to do both.

Where I work, in a small rural hospital, it was decided that it was not economic to have an all RN surgery, therefore, having the RN scrub.

A registered nurse must be the circulator, so, if you have a RN scrub, that's two RN's in the room (easy math, right?)

For us, it's just not economic.

We have done it, and I thought it was fun, we rotated cases, etc.

I have been in surgery for 20+ years, and I love to scrub, but don't do it enough to take on the really big cases. But I'm good enough to do hernias, some ortho, etc.

I totally respect scrub techs and the job they do, and hope that they respect me and my job. It's kind of like the old saying about walking a mile in another man's shoes....mutual respect.

Mike, you use all RN's that's great, I wish we could afford to do that.

shodobe · Nov 18, 2004

I have a Director that is from the old school and will only hire RNs to fill positions. She has never had a problem with administration and economics. The tech we have is fairly good but lacks in a lot of skills. I am not sure why she was hired. I think it was to fill in a quick fix when she couldn't find a RN at the time. I and my fellow RNs are in a unique situation that most RNs will not find. I am sure as soon as she retires, techs will be a thing of the future. Other places I work at PT have techs and I am use to them and have no problem. The problem I see with the original question is one that it shouldn't be a situation where RNs should be allowed to scrub, it is one that techs should be allowed in the OR in the first place. I am old school and RNs were always in the OR and techs worked in surgi-centers and such. RNs should have stood their ground many years ago and not allowed techs to take jobs that were always theirs. This was before unions and no such luck with upper management. I think that if it was tried today in the union era, the door would be shut and techs would have a very difficult time getting thier foot in the door of most ORs. It all boils down to economics, cheap labor for cheap dollars. This is not to snub their skills, but when you can pay someone half of what an RN gets, why not. Sorry for ranting on but it is a little ridiculous to think I would have to ask permission to scrub a case over a tech. Mike

maryBSN2005 · Nov 18, 2004

Thanks, great reply. This is the kind of reply I am looking for.

Mary, for my part the answer is simple. I am a perioperative nurse. Basically this means I apply theory and practice in all aspects of OR care. I am as competent in scrubbing for an AAA, as I am in assisting the anaesthetic provider during a craniotomy. I am as efficient in circulating for a laparotomy as I am in organizing the operating list for the day for ENT. Any OR nurse who is unable to perform all his or her or duties cannot truly call themselves a perioperative care provider. So therefore my opinion is there is no excuse for someone to work in the or and not scrub. To me it should be mandatory.

callbabe · Dec 12, 2004

I am CNOR and RNFA but I have very little scrub experience and I would love to have a seasoned scrub (RN, LPN, or ST) teach me how to scrub. It think it would make me a better circulator and assist. In my hospital we mostly use OR techs to scrub and the RNs were used to circulate and monitor on the CS cases.

You have to have x number of years scrubbing to even apply.This is very scary to think that you are across from the surgeon and clearly do not have the scrub experience it takes to pass on a case, let alone 1st assist.

I am a 30 year RN. I have scrubbed,circulated, and 1st assisted in all aspects in the OR. I am also CNOR,RNFA, I think in the absence of a second surgeon on a case, 1s choice should be a experienced,RNFA, second choice would be an experienced RN scrub. Lets face it our patients deserve the best.

You do need a good nurse scrub to precept you on cases. You need to be a proficient scrub on any case you plan on 1st assisting on. Your surgeon needs this level of expertise, and your patients deserve nothing less.

Leyona · Dec 31, 2004

I have been a First Assist for 13 of the 17 years I have been scrubbing and NO I am not a RN. I make as much or sometimes more than the RNs in the room. I can circulate circles around most of the RNs they grab off the street to fill some policy that states an RN must be in the room.The RNs come to me and ask what we need, I am usually the one to pull all equiptment the supplies, meds and mix then prior to the case because they give me some new grad fresh out of nursing school and expect me to be able to teach them. I have no problem with the teaching part, but when an RN walks into the room and is learning to scrub or circulate with me, she better be ready to do it herself.. I am a great teacher but I think you have to get your hands dirty to learn. Circulators: No sitting back reading a book or magazine after the case starts, you better be standing at my back table ready & willing to learn and LISTEN>>> Watch what's going on and be ready to anticipate the needs of the scrubber, myself and my surgeon. No different than my job. I have the experience in the OR and feel everone deserves to learn and if you are willing; keep asking, keep begging and if your free, ask a Tech to let you scrub in with them.

Talk with the general surgeons about helping out on small cases.

So in response to the question: YES all of us should be crossed trained to be able to function in any area of the OR. NO EXCEPTIONS...

A patient shouldn't be in danger or die because they don't have properly trained staff in place.

stevierae · Dec 31, 2004

This topic has been done to death----do a search.

No need for any circulator to "stand" behind anyone's back table--listening is our most important skill, and we need to be listening and anticipating needs for anesthesia and the surgeons as well--not just for the scrub. Most circulators are, or should be, damned good scrubs--back in the day, we had to learn to scrub FIRST before we could ever circulate--that way we could anticipate (without being asked, and without having to STAND behind anyone's back table) what they would need--because we'd been there before, and would be there again. When I scrub, I try to make sure I have everything I could possibly need for the case in the room, so that the circulator isn't out of the room half the time, getting things that I forgot (and that were, indeed, my responsibility to remember.)

I have no problem with my circulator sitting and reading a magazine or whatever---he or she is on her feet enough, and will be on his or her feet in an instant if need be. We all have finely tuned listening skills, and we are all capable of glancing at a back table occasionally to see if laps, NS, suture etc. need replenishing.

The policy for an RN in the circulator role--NOT just "in the room--" is dicatated by our professional organization (governing body) AORN, and is also law in every state that I am aware of. Every patient deserves a Registered Nurse. It's the law--not someone's whim for a need for "warm bodies."