What do you get from BSN?

[DC Collins]

For those of you with BSN's, what is it you get from your BSN that you do not get from an ADN, that is better for your individual patients?

I have my ADN, intend to get my BSN (and always did intend to, but needed to start earning money sooner than that). I understand how the extra education is useful for department/unit management skills and such. But many say that BSN is important to nursing for the patients' sakes, and I am trying to discover why. Please be more specific than "critical thinking skills" and the like.

Thanks!

DC, ED NOC RN ADN

Abbreviations R Us :)

[NurseAdida]

Maybe it's different in other states, but in my state the ADN and BSN program accreditation requirements are exactly the same; same number of pre-req credits (65) and the same number of core program credits (90). The only addition in the BSN program is 25 credits of electives prior to the program which are usually not nursing related. There is some flexibility in the classes that make up these credits but for the most part they are nearly identical, for instance the local ADN program chose to add an additional level of math (pre-calc) and drop the 5 credit nutrition class by incorporating the nutrition class in both A&P and the Core Nursing program.

The hospital I work has put a freeze on hiring new grad BSN's, because they've found them to be too expensive to train in the current economy. The local BSN program, is associated with a huge medical center which is where most of their graduates end up working. This medical center has a full 12 month residency program, so the BSN program essentially assumes that their graduates will still have another year of training when they are done, which doesn't work out very well when my facility can't afford more than a couple months of non-productive training, and we've found the ADN students tend to finish with more advanced clinical experience and are able to take a full load of patient quicker.

I am sorry but this is some offensive ********! Whoever came up with this conclusion needs help

[PatMac10,RN, RN]

be careful what you wish for. the flood of foreign nurses that began in the early 90's has been empowered by the fraudulent actions of nursing recruiters to create the illusion that nursing is an eligeable field for H1-b visas. in truth, only a limited number of nursing positions actually require BSN, so immigrant nurses should only be admitted to fill those few positions. H1-c, a program specifically for ADN requirements, has expired.

the truth is that immigrant nurses have long taken LPN and ADN positions after having been imported to work at BSN level, and the USCIS is just beginning to crack down on this in response to our economic slowdown. if BSN ever does become an across the board requirement for RN certification you will see an increasing flood of phillipinas contracting to hospitals at bargain basement prices, diminishing your salary value and stealing your job.

Thanks for you comment. I think I may have not put my words clearly. I don't wish that the minimum entrance level for RN practice would be BSN, but I feel that the option to get a BSN should stay open and not be looked up or down on. Since they (They being the state boards of nursing) want the minimum education requirement for RN practice to be a BSN degree in the future. I work at a hospital with many Phillipina nurses and they say there is a overflow of nurses and midwives over there and that's one of the reasons they themselves came to work as a nurse in America.

You gave me some very interesting facts.

[MunoRN, RN]

I am sorry but this is some offensive ********! Whoever came up with this conclusion needs help

I don't argue that I probably do need some sort of mental help, although the stupid conclusion was based on data rather than my unrelated personality disorders.

Last summer, we looked back at all our new grad hires over the past two years. Their orientation is evaluated every two weeks during the orientation period and one of the variables evaluated is the orientee's comfort level with taking a normal patient load, as well as the preceptor's assessment of the orientee's readiness to take a full load. We found that at least 90% of ADN nurses were found to be ready to take a full load by an average of 8 weeks, while 90% of BSN nurses were not ready until after 12 weeks.

This probably varies widely from region to region, and the difference we found was most likely due to a severe shortage of clinical opportunities at the two main BSN programs we pull from which impedes the accumulation of clinical experience compared to the two local ADN programs that benefit from a wealth of clinical opportunities. This certainly doesn't mean we don't encourage nurses to get their BSN, but for the time being we encourage nurses to get their ADN and then add on a BSN to that after a year or two of experience, which makes the ADN to BSN program much more beneficial.

After spending the money I spent on a BSN, I would love to be able to justify it with the knowledge that I spent 20 times as much as an ADN because a BSN is 20 times better, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Also, my BSN program amounted to four years of clinicals, and in the last semester, which is four months, we work full time hours with the expectation of assuming a full patient load at least the last 2 months.

[backatit2]

let's look at it from another angle. what is the difference between a typical BSN student and a typical ADN student, and how does this predispose them to turn out?

the typical BSN student is straight out of high school, a middle to high acheiver, has parental suppport, begins school, may live at home or away from home, and may have a part time job, or not. they take out large loans after squeezing mom and dad for as much as they can, mom does their laundry, and dad makes sure they have a car. throughout the experience typical BSN students are highly empowered by their family resources.

they also do tend to be taller, and better looking, as this kind of genetic is found in economically successful families that can afford to coddle children thru college. as for the sexiness quotient mentioned by an earlier poster, well, i have always found pasty, vacuous, and entitled blondes unattractive, preferring sultry, ill tempered mediterranean and asian types. but that's just my personal preference.

the typical ADN student is one of several flavors. some are kids from humbler families coming straight out of high school who may or may not do well in a competitive placement program, but the majority are people in their 20's-30's working at CNA or LPN level who want to advance. some are also career changers in their 30's-40's. in these cases people are not empowered by family resources, rather, they are generally self supporting. because of this they go for the "most bang for the buck", and look to solve an economic problem within their chosen career, rather than to "change the world".

the differences between the two types of students would naturally make the ADN less "entitled" than the BSN. the ADN would be more humble, but made of stronger fabric. the ADN would understand survival needs at a level well beyond the BSN's understanding. the ADN would be less likely to take personal injury from random circumstance, and less likely to complain about negligeable insult. the ADN would be too busy doing the work to stake out territory and create social network like the BSN.

but, the system being what it is, advancement is only had thru a BSN, so BSN it must be, hell or high water.

we all sit around and judge people on a daily basis. this process is a necessary survival skill. it is natural, and normal, and it is better developed in some than others. in the best process a judgement is not based on face, or appearance, rather on basis, or how the appearance was obtained.

that is one of the silliest things i've ever read on this board. i can't say that i've ever heard - even though i'm a BSN student

[MunoRN, RN]

Also, my BSN program amounted to four years of clinicals, and in the last semester, which is four months, we work full time hours with the expectation of assuming a full patient load at least the last 2 months.

You start clinicals at the beginning of freshman year? Not a horrible idea, but how does that work for people that don't pick a major until the end of their sophomore year?

[nursel56]

justashooter -- really dry sense of humor or really whole bunch of off- kilter opinions? In any case, it brought this quote to mind:

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."---- Mark Twain

There were a lot of flaws in those studies and the hospitals they did them in.

In my experience, since we have a large BSN school and an ADN school here, both schools produce equal and bedside-ready RNs that pass the same NCLEX.

Yep. Always important to find out who "they" are when discussing studies that show patient outcomes are (in a study referred to here once) 31% better when BSN nurses take care of them and which "they" has the authority to require an across the board BSN as minimum entry point.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Hi MunoRN. We start in LTC after passing a skills test. If you can't perform basic skills, you don't go. Goodbye, the end. So people know to take it seriously. The idea is to get people used to nursing early. There is no choosing a major until 3rd or 4th year, and only if the grades are B+, with an interview. I was lucky to get accepted to 0R in my 4th year. Another friend got ICU.

[CuriousMe]

Hi MunoRN. We start in LTC after passing a skills test. If you can't perform basic skills, you don't go. Goodbye, the end. So people know to take it seriously. The idea is to get people used to nursing early. There is no choosing a major until 3rd or 4th year, and only if the grades are B+, with an interview. I was lucky to get accepted to 0R in my 4th year. Another friend got ICU.

Hmm...isn't your major nursing? How are you doing clinicals if you haven't declared nursing as your major?

[CuriousMe]

You start clinicals at the beginning of freshman year? Not a horrible idea, but how does that work for people that don't pick a major until the end of their sophomore year?

Our BS program starts the beginning of Sophomore year...basically, students need to know as they start their Freshman courses that they want to be in the nursing program...there's no way to finish the pre-reqs and apply if they don't.

So, folks are free to pick their major in Sophomore year....but they'll be doing their sophomore year again.

[PatMac10,RN, RN]

Hi MunoRN. We start in LTC after passing a skills test. If you can't perform basic skills, you don't go. Goodbye, the end. So people know to take it seriously. The idea is to get people used to nursing early. There is no choosing a major until 3rd or 4th year, and only if the grades are B+, with an interview. I was lucky to get accepted to 0R in my 4th year. Another friend got ICU.

I think I would have went on and continued to pursue a BSN in the first place if the schools around here allow you to take clinical courses throughout the whole 4 years or at least 3 years. Idk. The thing is most schools simply make you wait til your Junior year to begin your clinical nursing courses.

But, in the end, I'm happy I chose the path I did (ADN straight out of HS and then RN-to-BSN). IT just works best for what I want. :)

[MunoRN, RN]

Our BS program starts the beginning of Sophomore year...basically, students need to know as they start their Freshman courses that they want to be in the nursing program...there's no way to finish the pre-reqs and apply if they don't.

So, folks are free to pick their major in Sophomore year....but they'll be doing their sophomore year again.

How many credits is the program itself?