The thread in the nursing student forum about people who are always late got me thinking.
I am chronically early for everything. If I'm not 10 minutes early for an appointment, work, whatever, then I start to get anxiety. So I have a hard time relating to those who are temporally challenged. And I know that there are people who are ALWAYS late. I work with half a dozen providers, and one or two are like me (always there 15 minutes before start time), a couple get there right at start time, and there are 2 or 3 who are ALWAYS 10-20 minutes late for their first appointment of the session (and it drives me farking nuts, because the chronic late ones are my favorite providers and they ask me to go to lunch with them, and if I accept, then *I* will be late for my first appointment of the afternoon session, which is exactly what happened yesterday).
I know that sometimes it's just poor (or lack of) planning. But I've come to suspect that for some people, it's just part of their innate character, and that's what I want to try to understand better, so that I can better work with these people (and not show my intense annoyance). I really do think that sometimes, it's just beyond their control.
So for those of you who are temporally challenged, or love someone who is, help me understand what happens in their brains that make them this way, so I can be a more understanding coworker/supervisor.
Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.
Shilla is my sister (brother?) from another mother :-)
Punctuality certainly has its place and is essential in some situations but it's not in everything. If I could be 100% punctual and be everything else that I am, I would be a better person, but if I were to trade some aspects of my performance for better punctuality, that in itself would not make me better nurse.
But in my case I can avoid the whole issue by not pinning myself down to a small window, it's been something that I try to improve.
Amen Libby a sister from another mother.
Totally agree that I would not trade aspects of my performance for punctuality. Some things are more important.
Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.
HOWEVER.....when that person is a healthcare provider who is expected to see a patient every twenty minutes from 8:00 AM until 4:30 PM, and the first two patients are roomed and waiting for the provider, and the provider doesn't even show up in the building until 8:25, yeah, that's kind of a huge problem. Likewise, a nurse who is expected to be clocked in and ready to receive report at 0700, in order to relieve the off-going nurse who has been working for 12 1/2 hours and is dead tired and ready to go to bed, and the oncoming nurse doesn't clock in until 0720, that likewise is a pretty big problem.
In both of these examples you are talking about early morning hours. As stated in my previous post, the person showing up late may be a night person....and I am sure that they know it but for some reason has not chosen to move off to a later shift. That would make everyone, including that doc or nurse happier.
Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.
Oh. Let's not forget the appointment I missed that caused me a $50 missed appointment fee. Yes, you are right. That person does not think like me, because if they did, I would not have had to pay $50 for their lack of consideration. They have the right to be as late as they want to and their employer allows them to get away with, but when it starts costing me money as well as sleep time, or just inconvenience, then they have sullied the workplace for a lot of us.
Yes and what you describe is indeed a management issue. A person who is tardy often and causes disruption should be managed.
I think most of could agree we do not want to lose our experienced nurses. That said if that person comes in late, why not have management talk to them about a later shift etc.
Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. As difficult it is for me to wrap my head around NOT being able to understand that, I suspect that people who are chronically tardy can't wrap their heads around what you suggested. That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out in this thread. I really think it's just a fundamental difference in how people's brains work.
It is hard for folks who squeak in right at the 8am bell to get their heads around leaving early because there is no reason to. Most places will not allow the nurse that arrives early to log in and work. So if they left early they would arrive very early only to sit and spin their wheels.
Maybe someone can explain that, how people who can and do show up on time but don't necessarily do quality work (compliance and such) nor meet deadlines. In acute care I'm sure there are people who show up on time but arent such disciplined performers. What is the personality there?
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So why the person who arrives on time can't meet other deadlines? I'd think those would go hand in hand but I see it played out differently with opposite examples at my work.
"The kind of people who try to leave for "low census" when it's hopping busy, but don't mind staying when it's slow and they can get away with being a chair warmer for awhile (vaguely staring at a computer screen and moving the mouse around). In other words, those who prefer to spend their energy finding ways to avoid work"
Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.
.........I can kind of see where those chronically tardy people are coming from (that have posted here) but I still can't get over how the RESPONSIBILITY of being somewhere on time seems to get pushed to the back burner. Even if it's for a dinner with friends I feel a responsibility to be there on time even though it's casual.
Not trying to necessarily say anything negative to the chronically tardy but is there any sense of guilt or that you weren't a responsible adult when your tardiness affects others?
Again not trying to really put anybody down as I have good friends and family who have this problem and I still set up times to meet them lol.
It can be put on the back burner for the reasons stated from myself and others. My biggest issue with being on time for things like MD appts is that they are not on time, and I need to sit, wait and be bored. I HATE being bored.
As to sense of guilt, sure there is a sense of guilt if someone is made to wait. But that is where experience comes in. I know my spouse arrives 10-15 minutes early to everywhere he goes, so I make sure that I am ready when he is. And work, well i know my log in time and I am there. But as stated above for items, like MD appts, who almost always run late.....there is no rush.
I will admit that I was chronically late to most everything in my past (pre-nursing career) life, but I will tell you it is not because I had no respect for other people's time. Truly, I felt horrible always walking a few minutes late into work or appointments, and getting that look of disdain, where you know people are mad or now view you as less competent. I always truly thought I would be on time, but didn't leave enough time to get places, or always thought I had time to do one more thing before I left, always so busy. What fixed it for me was my first week or two of nursing school (second career), where all the important and valid reasons for being on time were drilled into us. In addition, if we were even 1 second late for class, the doors were locked and that was it, no getting in. If we missed a few classes we would fail that class. Same with clinicals, if we were late, we were sent home...miss two clinicals and we would fail that semester. There were acceptable reasons for missing classes or clinicals, but those were very limited. Magically, I was suddenly able to be 15+ minutes early for everything. With a little training, people can change.
I am a chronic last minute person and I will tell you it stems from my perception that my time is INCREDIBLY valuable to me. I put 100% effort into everything I do. I know other people's time is valuable to them, too... but really? Waiting in the parking lot for 30 minutes? Standing around staring at the time clock for ten minutes because it's too early to clock in and you're just... what? Enjoying looking at the wallpaper? It's the same wallpaper that's always there. There are better things I could be doing than looking at the wallpaper. An extra five minutes with my boyfriend is better than looking at the wallpaper. Even an extra two minutes loving on my cat, or an extra minute just to relax before work. I guess we have mutual views that people with the opposite view of time have some kind of dysfunction.
I clock in between 1844-1845 every day, usually 1845. Half the time I am sprinting from my car to the time clock to make it on time - and I do mean full on top speed sprint, that results in struggling to catch my breath and me feeling absolutely awful for at least ten minutes. We can clock in as early as 1838, but I have never clocked in any earlier than 1842, and I was impressed when I managed that. I hit every single green light on the way to work that day!
I know exactly how long it takes me to get ready and I budget exactly that amount of time. I also know it usually takes me less than ten minutes to get to work so I budget myself ten minutes to get there. I am also a chronic lead foot and a speeder - I average a speeding ticket a year. I try and modify that behavior, but it's the same principle - why take half an hour to get somewhere when I can take 28 minutes instead? That's an extra two minutes to do whatever I want to do when I get there. Does anyone enjoy wasting time in traffic? I certainly don't. I also know that a lawyer can usually use the improper equipment defense once a year, so I have never gotten points on my license/insurance despite the seven speeding tickets I have gotten so far. I have been let off with a warning three times.
So that's my logic. It has hurt me a few times - I had a teacher in nursing school that had quizzes at the beginning of class, and if you weren't there before the quizzes were passed out, you were not allowed to take them. I had two quizzes that I got zeros on because of this. You bet I went and cried in the bathroom over it both times, and it brought my GPA down from a 3.92 to a 3.89 when I got a B+ instead of an A- in that class because of the zeroes, but honestly? People are still impressed that I graduated magna cum laude from nursing school, you know what I'm saying? I don't think any grad school is going to turn me down because my GPA was a 3.89 instead of a 3.92. I guess I have never been motivated to change my behavior because even if something "hurts" me, it doesn't hurt me bad enough to make a difference.
I'm the person who shows up 5 minutes before the start time, and my "half an hour early is late" peers always tease me about it. But while they show up and proceed to mentally and physically prep, I've already done that before arriving and I can jump in just as ready as they are at start-time. Some of them still aren't ready by the start. They chit-chat while prepping and so what takes me 10 minutes to do quietly at home takes them the hour they've been there together waiting. But I'd feel horrendous if I showed up after an appointment had already started.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I know other people's time is valuable to them, too... but really? Waiting in the parking lot for 30 minutes? Standing around staring at the time clock for ten minutes because it's too early to clock in and you're just... what? Enjoying looking at the wallpaper? It's the same wallpaper that's always there. There are better things I could be doing than looking at the wallpaper. An extra five minutes with my boyfriend is better than looking at the wallpaper. Even an extra two minutes loving on my cat, or an extra minute just to relax before work. I guess we have mutual views that people with the opposite view of time have some kind of dysfunction.
For me, spending that extra 5 minutes relaxing before work AT HOME, would not be relaxing to me, if I thought that it might make me late. Instead, it would make me incredibly anxious and stressed out driving to work. I would rather take those extra few minutes relaxing AT WORK before starting. I also keep different things in my car - books, textbooks, etc - so if I'm very early, I'm not staring at wallpaper - I'm reading, or studying, or playing Trivia Crack on my phone.
I also have three different routes that I take to work, and when I'm getting to the point where I need to decide which route to take, I will look on Google maps to see which route is least congested. I know exactly how many minutes it takes me to get from point A to point B in little traffic from all of my routes.
Okay, this post makes me sound mentally ill, and I swear I'm not. See? I really do think people's brains are just wired differently. And I realize that my personality is on the extreme opposite end, and most people likely fall somewhere in the middle. I guess I was just hoping to have a better understanding of the other end of the spectrum and what makes them tick.
And Shilla, I see your point about the phrase "temporally challenged" - thank you for clarifying. I honestly had no inkling that that would be considered offensive.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I'm the person who shows up 5 minutes before the start time, and my "half an hour early is late" peers always tease me about it. But while they show up and proceed to mentally and physically prep, I've already done that before arriving and I can jump in just as ready as they are at start-time. Some of them still aren't ready by the start. They chit-chat while prepping and so what takes me 10 minutes to do quietly at home takes them the hour they've been there together waiting. But I'd feel horrendous if I showed up after an appointment had already started.
How do you prep at home?
One of the things I do when I come to work early is (besides opening up the exam rooms, setting out POC testing supplies in the lab, and making coffee) is "buffing" my schedule - looking up all the patients I will see that day, thoroughly combing through their medical and OB history with our facility, and mentally making a checklist of things I will need to address with that specific patient. I also briefly buff the providers' schedules to make sure there aren't any glaring scheduling errors that need to be rectified, or holes that need to be filled.
I would not be able to do that at home. I would love to be able to do that at home, in my pajamas, drinking coffee.
MatrixRn
448 Posts
Amen Libby a sister from another mother.
Totally agree that I would not trade aspects of my performance for punctuality. Some things are more important.