I'm a senior nursing student and this debate arose with a couple of my classmates and me. I work as an ER tech and they work as patient care techs on the floor. As of right now, CDC guidelines state for PPE:
Quote
Updated PPE recommendations for the care of patients with known or suspected COVID-19:
Based on local and regional situational analysis of PPE supplies, facemasks are an acceptable alternative when the supply chain of respirators cannot meet the demand. During this time, available respirators should be prioritized for procedures that are likely to generate respiratory aerosols, which would pose the highest exposure risk to HCP.
Facemasks protect the wearer from splashes and sprays.
Respirators, which filter inspired air, offer respiratory protection.
When the supply chain is restored, facilities with a respiratory protection program should return to use of respirators for patients with known or suspected COVID-19. Facilities that do not currently have a respiratory protection program, but care for patients infected with pathogens for which a respirator is recommended, should implement a respiratory protection program.
Eye protection, gown, and gloves continue to be recommended
So basically CDC is saying wear an N95 if you have it, but if you don't, wear a surgical mask until you can get an N95.
So if you have a suspected or confirmed COVID-19 patient, and all you have is a surgical mask and no N95, can you refuse to take care of that patient? Do you face any legal repercussions or potential fallout from your employer if you do refuse? Asking not only about tech positions, but RN positions as well.
Specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU.
3 minutes ago, Keely PHN said:
Dinah 77; its unfortunate you think of your profession as just a job! You are suppose to be a Healer; not just another joker taking a paycheck. You obviously have gotten into the wrong profession. I am glad I am not your patient or my family members for that matter, because you don't seem to have the heart for this type of endeavor. this isn't just a job, This is a life, a profession, where we continue to learn for the remainder of our lives to provide the best care possible and maintain our License. if it was just a Job, you wouldn't have to have a license, and you wouldn't have to continue you education until you decide you no longer want to practice. You have the privilege of caring for peoples lives. Maybe you and everyone else that is thinking of walking out should just go ahead and give up your license. You don't have the temperament for nursing. Nursing-the profession or practice of providing care for the sick and infirm. When was the last time you took care of someone and actually gave the patient a cool wash cloth or a Back rub just to make them feel better?
Not everyone feels the same way you do and that is okay. Not everyone believes that nursing is a calling or that they are Healers and that is okay. People can believe it to be a job and still be amazing nurses, despite your ignorant judgment otherwise. Likewise, people can think it is a calling and they are Healers and be crap nurses who can't critically think.
I would say it is best to come off of your high horse there.
Dinah 77; its unfortunate you think of your profession as just a job! You are suppose to be a Healer; not just another joker taking a paycheck. You obviously have gotten into the wrong profession. I am glad I am not your patient or my family members for that matter, because you don't seem to have the heart for this type of endeavor. this isn't just a job, This is a life, a profession, where we continue to learn for the remainder of our lives to provide the best care possible and maintain our License. if it was just a Job, you wouldn't have to have a license, and you wouldn't have to continue you education until you decide you no longer want to practice. You have the privilege of caring for peoples lives. Maybe you and everyone else that is thinking of walking out should just go ahead and give up your license. You don't have the temperament for nursing. Nursing-the profession or practice of providing care for the sick and infirm. When was the last time you took care of someone and actually gave the patient a cool wash cloth or a Back rub just to make them feel better?
oh for the love of........First of all, you know nothing about me and how I practice.
Second, you know what my experience is with you "healer" types? Most of you are so busy doing backrubs you miss the crucial signs your patient is circling the drain
I've been a nurse for ten years and I've had to save patients who were showing signs of SIRS or straight-up sepsis more times than I can count from nurses like you. While I'm running boluses and ordering labs, y'all are getting lavender soaked cotton-balls
See I value my job, my patients and myself enough to NOT make it my whole identity. I despise the whole nurse as martyr and angel idea.
As Dorthy Day once said "Don't call me a saint- I don't wish to be dismissed that easily."
Dinah 77; its unfortunate you think of your profession as just a job! You are suppose to be a Healer; not just another joker taking a paycheck. You obviously have gotten into the wrong profession. I am glad I am not your patient or my family members for that matter, because you don't seem to have the heart for this type of endeavor. this isn't just a job, This is a life, a profession, where we continue to learn for the remainder of our lives to provide the best care possible and maintain our License. if it was just a Job, you wouldn't have to have a license, and you wouldn't have to continue you education until you decide you no longer want to practice. You have the privilege of caring for peoples lives. Maybe you and everyone else that is thinking of walking out should just go ahead and give up your license. You don't have the temperament for nursing. Nursing-the profession or practice of providing care for the sick and infirm. When was the last time you took care of someone and actually gave the patient a cool wash cloth or a Back rub just to make them feel better?
OMG. I just snorted water up my nose. Thanks for the laugh!
Damn, I love these holier-than-though posts.
FWIW, I enjoy my job. But I do it for the money, it is not my calling, and I expect to be protected. Guess I should hand back my halo ...
The crux of the problem is that hospital administrators, safety planners, public health officials, FEMA etc. did not do their jobs. They did not pay attention to scientists who have been warning that something like this would happen sooner or later and it would be a good idea to prepare for it, despite the cost. Now, nurses and other health care workers are left with an impossible job that many will pay the ultimate price for. Please don't even begin to blame or judge nurses for the difficult decisions they're being forced to make.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
5 hours ago, JadedCPN said:
Not everyone feels the same way you do and that is okay. Not everyone believes that nursing is a calling or that they are Healers and that is okay. People can believe it to be a job and still be amazing nurses, despite your ignorant judgment otherwise. Likewise, people can think it is a calling and they are Healers and be crap nurses who can't critically think.
I would say it is best to come off of your high horse there.
So well said. I became a nurse 20 years ago after divorcing from my 1st husband. I had had a number of the kind of jobs one gets with a frilly liberal arts degree and needed to find a way to be able to support myself. Back then there actually was a nursing shortage. Upon graduation and licensure Hospital's were falling all over themselves to hire us. I'm talking sign on and relocation bonuses, car leases and specialty training right out of school. I was sent to train for Labor and delivery on an interim permit. I had thought about nursing in the past but found reasons to study other things. I always liked taking care of people and animals and my dad said I had a sympathy complex where I just had to take care of every broken thing I came across.
All that being said I often find myself annoyed by the folks who call nursing a calling as if it were akin to some sort of religious order. Certainly some people feel compelled to go into nursing, others like myself want a stable and predictable paycheck. I have worked alongside some truly fabulous nurses some who were "Called" so to speak and others who were in it for the money. After 20 years with only an ADN I am making close to 6 figures and love what I do. But many of the nurses I have worked with are some of the greatest people I have encountered in my life. What I had to learn though was to leave the job at the facility at the end of the day. I describe myself as a stealth bomber in that I swoop in, do the job efficiently and correctly and then swoop out. Like other posters have said I have worked with nurses who in report will say "The patient is FINE only to find they are literally decompensating when I make my rounds. In psych that means that they are having a lot of emotional turmoil that needs to be addressed immediately or someone is likely to get hurt. I have met many life long psych nurses who don't have any assessment skills or insight so the patient will decomp emotionally and physically.
In an earlier post I stated that being a nurse is just a small piece of the puzzle that is me. I sing, dance and celebrate my faith. I am a wife, mother, sister, aunt and cousin. I garden, train dogs and horses and I can sew and make cozy sweaters with a pair of knitting needles and yarn. Lastly I am a nurse and a darn good one. At the end of the day it is a job. For the most part I am treated well by the administration of my facility and as a general rule the psychiatrists that see patients in our facility understand my worth and treat me as a professional. I will retire in 7 or 8 years or tomorrow if my lotto ticket comes in. I am going to retire for the night and be back at it tomorrow.
So well said. I became a nurse 20 years ago after divorcing from my 1st husband. I had had a number of the kind of jobs one gets with a frilly liberal arts degree and needed to find a way to be able to support myself. Back then there actually was a nursing shortage. Upon graduation and licensure Hospital's were falling all over themselves to hire us. I'm talking sign on and relocation bonuses, car leases and specialty training right out of school. I was sent to train for Labor and delivery on an interim permit. I had thought about nursing in the past but found reasons to study other things. I always liked taking care of people and animals and my dad said I had a sympathy complex where I just had to take care of every broken thing I came across.
All that being said I often find myself annoyed by the folks who call nursing a calling as if it were akin to some sort of religious order. Certainly some people feel compelled to go into nursing, others like myself want a stable and predictable paycheck. I have worked alongside some truly fabulous nurses some who were "Called" so to speak and others who were in it for the money. After 20 years with only an ADN I am making close to 6 figures and love what I do. But many of the nurses I have worked with are some of the greatest people I have encountered in my life. What I had to learn though was to leave the job at the facility at the end of the day. I describe myself as a stealth bomber in that I swoop in, do the job efficiently and correctly and then swoop out. Like other posters have said I have worked with nurses who in report will say "The patient is FINE only to find they are literally decompensating when I make my rounds. In psych that means that they are having a lot of emotional turmoil that needs to be addressed immediately or someone is likely to get hurt. I have met many life long psych nurses who don't have any assessment skills or insight so the patient will decomp emotionally and physically.
In an earlier post I stated that being a nurse is just a small piece of the puzzle that is me. I sing, dance and celebrate my faith. I am a wife, mother, sister, aunt and cousin. I garden, train dogs and horses and I can sew and make cozy sweaters with a pair of knitting needles and yarn. Lastly I am a nurse and a darn good one. At the end of the day it is a job. For the most part I am treated well by the administration of my facility and as a general rule the psychiatrists that see patients in our facility understand my worth and treat me as a professional. I will retire in 7 or 8 years or tomorrow if my lotto ticket comes in. I am going to retire for the night and be back at it tomorrow.
thank you hppy for having a positive reference for nurses. I am rather aghast at the responses that are so judgmentally placed as to remind me that while nursing ought to be a compassionate enterprise, many of us are not kind and not compassionate. Lots of horizontal violence still goes on. Let it end here, on the covid fields.
Any Nurse who has worked Critical Care knows that setting and infusing Iv's is part of the technical aspect. Anyone knows who has an education that any person who has a severe infection when started on Antibiotics will get worse as the bacteria releases its toxins as it dies so people can turn for the worse in Seconds. you can give someone report and two minutes later they are coding. Sepsis; ARDS, Resp. or Hemodynamic failure can happen in the blink of an eye. What you are describing as your care is all technical, not really nursing. Believe me; patient's can tell the difference between someone who is only technical and someone who is technical but also caring or a Real Nurse. You say rubbing somone's back is sissy, You obviously do not understand Human physiology. Maybe you should go back to school and get your BSN or MSN. It might teach you something. Or god forbid; you become a patient your self.
Any Nurse who has worked Critical Care knows that setting and infusing Iv's is part of the technical aspect. Anyone knows who has an education that any person who has a severe infection when started on Antibiotics will get worse as the bacteria releases its toxins as it dies so people can turn for the worse in Seconds. you can give someone report and two minutes later they are coding. Sepsis; ARDS, Resp. or Hemodynamic failure can happen in the blink of an eye. What you are describing as your care is all technical, not really nursing. Believe me; patient's can tell the difference between someone who is only technical and someone who is technical but also caring or a Real Nurse. You say rubbing somone's back is sissy, You obviously do not understand Human physiology. Maybe you should go back to school and get your BSN or MSN. It might teach you something. Or god forbid; you become a patient your self.
LOL. My you're being obtuse. I actually have a BA and will be completing an MPH in May, but go off
Also, I've been a nurse for 10 yrs, and a member for 14- You've been here less than a month, so you should really think about your reputation and how you wish to interact with members here
Finally, you don't actually know anything about me or how I do or do not treat my patients
I simply reject this martyr-nurses-as-a-calling nonsense. I have a very rich life outside of work, and I think it's just kinda sad for anyone who has made their career their whole identity, whether that's a nurse, banker, teacher, etc..
Any Nurse who has worked Critical Care knows that setting and infusing Iv's is part of the technical aspect. Anyone knows who has an education that any person who has a severe infection when started on Antibiotics will get worse as the bacteria releases its toxins as it dies so people can turn for the worse in Seconds. you can give someone report and two minutes later they are coding. Sepsis; ARDS, Resp. or Hemodynamic failure can happen in the blink of an eye. What you are describing as your care is all technical, not really nursing. Believe me; patient's can tell the difference between someone who is only technical and someone who is technical but also caring or a Real Nurse. You say rubbing somone's back is sissy, You obviously do not understand Human physiology. Maybe you should go back to school and get your BSN or MSN. It might teach you something. Or god forbid; you become a patient your self.
No offense, but I would be really irritated if a nurse began to rub my back. As someone who has autoimmune issues, I hate to be touched because sometimes my skin feels like it’s on fire.
I want the nurse who has the knowledge, critical thinking skills and speed on my side. Pleasantries are a plus, but sometimes I don’t want even that. When I was a patient, I was grieving; please back off. My nurse, god bless her, got that and did just that.
Tbh, I can’t even understand this post as it’s completely nonsensical. There is not one definition of “caring.” The nurse I had responded to my needs, but if you rubbed my back and started talking to me - you would not be and I would not see you as caring. I would see you as responding to YOUR needs.
No offense, but I would be really irritated if a nurse began to rub my back. As someone who has autoimmune issues, I hate to be touched because sometimes my skin feels like it’s on fire.
I want the nurse who has the knowledge, critical thinking skills and speed on my side. Pleasantries are a plus, but sometimes I don’t want even that. When I was a patient, I was grieving; please back off. My nurse, god bless her, got that and did just that.
Tbh, I can’t even understand this post as it’s completely nonsensical. There is not one definition of “caring.” The nurse I had responded to my needs, but if you rubbed my back and started talking to me - you would not be and I would not see you as caring. I would see you as responding to YOUR needs.
This is perfection- I'm pretty sure the ultimate definition of caring is keeping people alive
phn-RN seems to think it's black and white- and if catching sepsis is so basic and technical, how is that so many nurses I've taken report from sit there casually discussing how they had a really great conversation with their patient and then just as casually mention the patient's low BP, tachycardia, and extremely low temp?
I also think you nailed it when you discussed this nurse as responding to their needs primarily
Clearly this is one of those nurses that is so wrapped up in their identity as a "healer" the idea that this can be just a job to many of us is completely foreign
Specializes in ICU/ER/Med-Surg/Case Management/Manageme.
11 hours ago, pixierose said:
No offense, but I would be really irritated if a nurse began to rub my back. As someone who has autoimmune issues, I hate to be touched because sometimes my skin feels like it’s on fire.
I want the nurse who has the knowledge, critical thinking skills and speed on my side. Pleasantries are a plus, but sometimes I don’t want even that. When I was a patient, I was grieving; please back off. My nurse, god bless her, got that and did just that.
Tbh, I can’t even understand this post as it’s completely nonsensical. There is not one definition of “caring.” The nurse I had responded to my needs, but if you rubbed my back and started talking to me - you would not be and I would not see you as caring. I would see you as responding to YOUR needs.
Amen! Personally, I appreciate a provider - nurse, doctor, RT, PT - with a pleasant and courteous bedside manner, but I rely on them for their clinical expertise and efficiency. If I want a back rub, I have family and friends to perform that activity. On the other hand, some people, and especially older people, do appreciate a back rub or having someone spend a few minutes talking with them, holding their hand. It's individual and the "best" nurse will do what she/he does best...assess and prioritize the needs of the patient and perform accordingly.
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JadedCPN, BSN, RN
1,476 Posts
Not everyone feels the same way you do and that is okay. Not everyone believes that nursing is a calling or that they are Healers and that is okay. People can believe it to be a job and still be amazing nurses, despite your ignorant judgment otherwise. Likewise, people can think it is a calling and they are Healers and be crap nurses who can't critically think.
I would say it is best to come off of your high horse there.