Reality Check: Jobs for GN on OPT?

suzanne4, RN · Jun 5, 2008

It is very safe to assume that it is not going to be lifted by then, the supply of petitions far outweighs the number of visas that are available per year. And how long the wait is for a chance at a green card is also dependent on your country of birth.

And it is usually hard to get a position in the Bay Area even if you do not need petitioning so it is going to be much harder for you to get as well.

There is talk of different programs being put into play, but there are so many that are already ahead of you and waiting with completed petitions that we do not expect the AOS to be opened up for several years past that date for you. There werfe over 800,000 petitions submitted last summer and only 140,000 visas issued per year.

The degree that you will be getting does not qualify for the EB-2 as you will not be getting the CNS or the NP certifications and the job that you will start off with will not require the Master's degree for entry level as you will not have experience by then either.

Would expect for you to take and pass the NCLEX exam before even applying and therefore you would not be a GN at that point in time either.

Best of luck to you but be aware that it is not going to be easy for you to remain in the Bay Area with the OPT.

Proverbs 16:3 · Jun 5, 2008

you never know. I was applying for a position with a big teaching hospitals and just below the position for emergency nurses, i saw one listed for ' registered nurse - international applicants'. I'm not exactly sure what the application stated because i was looking for past the ER application down to the ICU but i was a little surprised to see they were hiring international applicants. I know one teaching hospital here manages to hire international nurses and i figured this other hospital i'm looking at is using the same means to do it, i think.

I know a friend recently got hired as an internationl at a hospital in MD. I actually heard it from another friend but i'm not sure which hospital it was.

I would suggest you focus on finishing school. No one knows what tomorrow may bring.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 5, 2008

But be aware that this poster asked about the Bay Area and that is a world all of its own and highly unionized, and the unions do not permit temporary worker visas. There is already a glut of new grads and not enough positions for them.

Have not seen one foreign nurse get petitioned there since the last retrogression started and I do watch it very closely. And this is even for someone with several years of actual bedside nursing.

If they want to go to other parts of the country, there are some facilities that are able to hire under the H1-B in certain cases, but the job also has to require at least the BSN for entry level and many do not.

That was the only point that I was making. Strictly referring to the Bay Area as the poster was. Just not going to happen and to get a management job there without experience as a new grad is not going to happen either.

straight4 · Jun 5, 2008

thank you suzanne and proverbs 16:3 for your helpful responses.

so i have specific qs for proverbs 16:3--

may i know which hospital you were referring to (the big teaching hospital you applied to)?

i will be attending univ of maryland, baltimore, so could you please tell me the names of all these other hospitals you mentioned that hired international applicants, and if they did, was that recent, like, after the retrogression?

i would also be open to moving to other states, so information about any good teaching hospital would be very helpful at this point. the bay area is just my first choice, but i realize i have to be realistic and pragmatic about things. even in ca, i was wondering if places like stockton/modesto/fresno would hire international applicants, assuming i only have my one-year opt. any input about that would be greatly appreciated as well.

please feel free to pm me if that's what you would prefer. thank you so much.

and i have a q for suzanne--

when you mentioned that "over 800,000 petitions [were] submitted last summer and only 140,000 visas [were] issued per year", does that mean that the remaining 660,000 who turned in their paperwork (petitions) are still working as rns, but just waiting for their actual green cards, or are they simply denied and unable to work at all in the meantime?

thank you once again for all your inputs!

Silverdragon102, BSN · Jun 5, 2008

The 800,000 applications last year was from a variety of occupations. RN's are now banded as EB3. Retrogression is still in progress and even if you find a employer there is no guarantee that you can stay in the US and wait.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 6, 2008

It is 140,000 EB-3 green cards that are issued per year, that 800,000 is the total of petitions that were submitted last summer for the AOS and definitely not all RNs. Many other professions are included as well under that classification and nurses no longer have a sub-category under the EB-3 called the Schedule A that has been gone since February of 2007.

What I am trying to explain is that even with these 800,000, if one does the math, that makes it about a five year wait and that does not even include all of those out of the country that are under CP processing either.

This is why you always see me write about an expected five year wait for a chance at a green card, and this is the reason why. That 140,000 is for all and not just those that wish to go thru AOS processing.

It is getting quite tight to find any hospitals that are willing to hire with the OPT because they do not know when things will open up again. And even if there are some hospitals that are willing to sponsor with the H1-C, does not mean that it will be there when you are done, nor with the H1-B. Things are changing all of the time now and getting much tighter as well.

This is what I am trying to get across to everyone. You are speaking 18 months from now and none of us have any true idea as to what is going to happen by then, but from what I am hearing from my sources, expecting it to get tighter and not easier and additional restrictions placed on those that wish to go thru AOS processing.

straight4 · Jun 6, 2008

Hi Suzanne,

Thank you for your detailed response. I really appreciate how you broke down the numbers and gave us an exact idea of the challenging situation.

If possible, I was wondering if you could clarify with me one thing about the green card process:

You mentioned the 5-year wait, etc, but I was wondering, let's say the retrogression was lifted, I can now submit my petition. So do you mean that it's a 5-year wait for me to get the EAD, which would allow me to work in the meantime (i.e., EAD would be like a renewable OPT while I wait for the actual Green Card), or do I have to wait 5 years without being able to work in the US (i.e., 5-year wait for the EAD)?

If it is a 5-year wait before I can even get an EAD, then it seems like I should not even start my nursing program.

You also mentioned about me being ineligible for EB-2 because I wasn't doing a CNS or NP. So if I changed my program, does that mean I would be eligible for EB-2?

Thank you so much for your time.

Silverdragon102, BSN · Jun 6, 2008

Doubt visas will ever become current especially as grouped as a whole in EB3. If in the US and visas are not current you can not file I485 which gives you permission to work whilst waiting for your file to be assessed. There is also talk of not being able to file I140 and 485 at the same time but wait like CP and I140 has to be approved first.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 6, 2008

Even if you were to change your major, the chance of getting hired without any RN experience first in a role like that is going to be quite slim and that is what is required to be able to qualify for the EB-2 visa.

We are not expecting the retrogression to be lifted for quite sometime, the only reason for it is that there are more applicants than there are visas available. Depending on your country of birth, and even with getting the MSN with advanced practice standing, there is still going to be a wait for one to get even the EB-2 if they are from India or China as there are many from those two countries that are here and getting Master's in other fields as well.

With things the way that they are right now, starting a nursing program so that you can remain in the US may not be the brightest thing to do given what is happening with immigration and expect it to even tighten more. The push is to put Americans thru nursing programs to give them jobs over a foreign nurse, that is just how it is right now. The economy is getting quite sluggish and the unemployment rate just shot up to its highest in more than 20 years or so, so any schooling as well as jobs are going to be a priority for an American so that they can take care of their family.

Do not think that I am against foreign nurses, that is definitely not the case, but for anyone that is just considering starting nursing so that they can remain here, really needs to look at things from all angles.

Best of luck to you.

straight4 · Jun 6, 2008

Hi Suzanne,

I was wondering if you would be able to answer my questions about the EAD, and whether the 5-year wait is for the EAD, or for the GC (after I get the EAD).

You might remember me from my previous PM to you, but my reason for going into nursing is not to stay in the US. After trying out different jobs in the nonprofit sector (after my first degree in that field of study) and volunteering at a hospital, I came to the conclusion that I wanted to be a nurse, and also wanted to settle in the US (or somewhere outside of my birth country, which by the way is not considered one of the "highly-impacted" countries), due to personal reasons. I do not see one as the means to the other.

But if I were not able to find a job (even on OPT) after I graduate, and only to find out that the accelerated program (such as the one I'm getting into) will not be recognized in other countries, then I just feel that I am making a very bad investment. Therefore, I just need to seek as much information and clarity as possible, so that I can make a sound investment decision.

Thank you for your kind understanding and continuing support. I really appreciate your prompt and informed responses.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 6, 2008

You cannot get the EAD as it is they government is not accepting the I-485. Once the OPT is up, there is no way to renew it. The I-485 is the actual petition for adjustment of status and we do not expect that to open up for several years due to the number of petitions that were accepted last summer and when there were already no visas available then. But that is another story altogether, and you can just do a search to find out more about it.

In the past, one could submit for the I-140, the I-485, as well as the petition to grant the EAD which is the document that permits one to work, but that is where the issues are now. It it not being accepted and anything past the I-140 is on hold.

Things have changed considerably in the past 18 months and I do not expect it to get better. Thnings will open and close, but returning to what things were like in the past is not going to happen. Immigration is actually getting tighter and tighter.

And you are correct to really think things thru as your accelerated program will not meet the requirements for immigration for most other countries as well, and this goes for those that hold US passports as well. I do remember you, but not always can match all details with someone, so bear with me.

It would be one thing if you were getting the tradional BSN, and then were going to go onto the MSN and would have experience with both degrees. And could use the OPT with each one and then that could make sense as you would have experience by the time that you finished the advanced practice training. But with things the way that they are, we are seeing people that have gone the direct entry route having to accept bedside nursing positions to get the needed experience first. For an American, this is not an issue but for someone that needs to be petitioned, it is completely another issue. And with getting the direct entry MSN, it would only qualify you for the EB-2 if you had already passed the additional licensure requirements to be able to be petitioned under that degree and with APN or CNS status. Average wait to get that done is about 6 months or so for most states, so that leaves only about 6 months with the OPT as well for that new role. The CNL role is not going to get one management jobs right from the beginning without any experience and that is where you would have an issue trying to use that for the EB-2 petitioning.

Hope that this is making sense, not sure that it is. Let me know if you have more questions. You may also wish to look into Canada to see if they would accept this for immigration purposes for you, that would at least give you some idea as to what you could do. Not sure if any other country would accept the training, but Canada is a possible option. If they will not, then I would not recommend going into nursing unless you can complete a more traditional program that will give you more options at this time.