"Forced Out"

[ICUenthusiast]

Long story short, I was forced out of my position (resign or be terminated) several months ago. When asked why I was being asked to resign, my response was, "You're a great nurse, but we can't have you at our facility for various reasons." I chose termination because my hospital is a unionized hospital, and the termination reasons were flat out falsifications (yeah, we're talking complete libel--easily disproven with charting, or "hearsay" from a certain colleague that disliked me intensely but is best friends with the supervisors/managers). This has allowed me to pursue grievances and arbitration. Regardless if I chose termination or resignation, I'm still a fairly new nurse, not reaching the commonly wanted 2 yrs+ experience I am seeing for a job in my specialty (ICU), and the status of not being able to rehired at my last facility. Being I have -only- worked as an ICU nurse, I am applying for everything from med-surg to LTAC but with minor luck and only getting a few applications to nursing managers thus far. I try to keep my reasons for not being at my previous position on the downlow, unless they ask for specifics, I give as much of a generic response as possible hinting that I'd like to work at a different facility.

It seems very dim atm for getting another job, despite this hospital's reputation of forcing out nurses for the slightest provocation in certain units (primarily when they start to "endanger" the unit with whistleblowing). Applying out of state is a huge disadvantage, considering the surrounding states have a surplus of newer nurses, and want -only- much more experienced nurses.

I am hoping more and more that the sheer amount of backpedaling HR has done means they will retract the whole termination sooner than later, so at least I can have a paying job while I look for a way out. Not to mention, individuals within the facility as well as ex-managers have seen my termination reasons, and have said there is absolutely -no chance- for the termination to be held up (yes, that is how bad they are). Even if they were my sup/manager and hated me, they could not even have written me up for what "reasons" were there.

Is there anything else that can be done to help find a job at a different facility at this point? If I am offered my position back first, and cannot get a transfer, how will I deal with having to go back to the same unit that harasses, bullies, and gets rid of anyone that will say "no" to unsafe patient assignments? Not to mention the amount of anxiety I'd feel having to return to it after several months of absence.

I feel almost discouraged from staying in the profession and pursue med school instead. At the facility in which I worked, it felt like horizontal violence ran rampant (regardless of the experience of the nurses, in fact, 60-80% of the hospital had less than 2 yrs exp.. red flag?), but the more I read AN, I feel this is accepted all too often in the profession.

[Jules A, MSN]

I have to say I have never seen a terminated employee reinstated so I would focus on finding work elsewhere. Things are tight in certain areas of the country so it may just take time and networking with any contacts you have to secure another position. Good luck.

[llg, PhD, RN]

I wouldn't be trying to get reinstated. If you can prove that your termination was unjust and "win your case" -- I would ask for compensation, not reinstatement. You don't want to work there and what they did to you hurt. Get some compensation and move on.

I assume you have an attorney helping you with your case. Talk to him/her about the different options available for you for a settlement. At least get a letter or some other documentation that clearly states that you were treated unfairly.

If you are not going to win the settlement ... then you have to treat it as a permanent termination and move on.

[Havin' A Party!, ASN, RN]

Don't think it's in your best interest to go back to the same unit.

If you seek reinstatement it must be elsewhere at the facility... a department which you believe will give you a fair chance to succeed and not engage in any "funny business."

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

Don't think it's in your best interest to go back to the same unit.

If you seek reinstatement it must be elsewhere at the facility... a department which you believe will give you a fair chance to succeed and not engage in any "funny business."

I don't think it's in her best interest to go back to the facility period. Given everything that's happened, no matter what unit she was assigned to at the old facility, she'd be going back with a big target painted on her back. IMO it's better for the OP to cut her losses and move onto another place.

[Havin' A Party!, ASN, RN]

... no matter what unit she was assigned to at the old facility, she'd be going back with a big target painted on her back...

If the OP feels that's the case... that any unit there would be out to get her... then yup, it's time to leave.

[ICUenthusiast]

Yes, I'd definitely prefer a different facility altogether, as such I won't stop trying/applying until I can get out. The chance of winning my case is very high, disgustingly so. I have references from within the facility, individuals that worked with me directly and disagreed with the claims against me, but couldn't stop me from being terminated.

Ultimately, a win would grant me back pay until the day they offer me reinstatement. If I had no other choice, I'd take a transfer at least long enough until I could get a new job elsewhere.

I feel there's a few units where I'd be "safe", because I worked with the educators directly many times (as far back as nursing school) and as a new nurse, even (many of the educators have doubled over for other units that lacked them). They are in charge of hiring/discipline etc. more than anyone else on their actual units. They reviewed my case off company hours and were very upset by it. If I was offered a transfer to their units, they'd pick me up in a heartbeat in their own words. Despite that, I'd lay low and still look for a different job.

Unfortunately, I've heard many more things since being put into this situation. Family friends starting to tell me of individuals they know being put through the same thing by the facility. Generally starts because someone is too willing to say "No, this is unsafe" or even just ageism. Unfortunately, most don't get representation because they are unaware of their own rights, and HR ofc does it in a way that they won't tell you of your impending forced resignation/termination choice until you walk int he door. Otherwise, they'd be facing a lot more union backlash. I take stories with a grain of salt, but when you start hearing the repeat of the same story from 30+ different people you begin to wonder.

[Woopsadaisy]

I don't think this is about what you said or did "wrong", or what they said or did wrong. This is about the company culture, and it not being a good fit for you. I work in an environment a lot like this one- bullying happens a lot here, good nurses get into trouble for BS reasons. A friend of mine was framed, and fired, and everyone knows it.

I am always looking over my back, smoothing over, grinning and bearing it.

It SUCKS!

You don't want to go back. As dismayed as everyone is, as wrong as they are, changing a corporate culture has to start at the top.

Anti bullying campaigns and rumor mill shut down.... sensitivity training, problem resolution... all these things need to be in place, and unrelenting. New rules need made.

IN my town, people who stand up against unions get harassed, even harmed. It's part of town history that some have been murdered.

I understand the culture that I am in, and I am here by choice, for now. I don't judge it. It is what it is, and I knew that when I moved here and when I accepted a job. I knew it would mean laying low, keeping myself private, finding a "back door" way to practice the way I need to without causing a stir. I remind myself daily not to ruffle any feathers, to give things time, to merely make suggestions and laugh them off if they are not listened to, but to keep making them anyway in a detached sort of way to show I am not emotionally invested either way.

And I remain emotionally uninvested.

I have only been an RN for 5 years, and am at a stand still at the place I work- no education- no one wants to help me get to where I want to be. It's frustrating to feel stuck here because the next closest hospital is 75 miles away, and for all I know, isn't any better.

So, it's up to me to sink or swim. It can help you to take the approach that you will bloom where you are planted, and deal with the hand you're dealt, and this might mean rearranging things a lot.

Sorry, I have no other advice for you.

BUt the one thing I can say that is GOOD about places like this, is that if you can learn how to fit into it, you can use it to your advantage. I choose not to fit in, I know this worries people. But I am there for patient care, and no other reason. I let my patient's outcomes speak for me.

If they want to terminate a good nurse who will work anywhere and do it like she's done it all her life, it's their loss.

Medical shcool would be a seemingly good way to show them that you don't need them and their pettiness-- but don't thing the EXACT same thing doesn't happen to doctors. I have watched one lose his malpractice insurance with a freeze on his contact, and I have watched another one lose his MD license outright. Same thing... all libel, all slander... they stepped on toes because they didn't know or chose not to adhere to the culture they were in.

Talented, good doctors... out of work.

It's sad.

Woops

[DeLana_RN, BSN, RN]

All good advice for the OP.... but how can someone who has been forced out find another job? How do you answer the question "Have you ever been terminated?" on the application? What do you give as reaon for leaving?

I'm asking for a friend of mine that this has happened to.... she has been out for work for 18 months now and is getting very disccouraged.

Thanks for any info,

DeLana

[Mal-RN]

Hey,

So I'm slightly curious to know which hospital you were at - or at least which city - since I JUST had something VERY similar happen to me - except we were not unionized so I resigned. My manager did not outright tell me I was going to get terminated but she sat me down and GREATLY encouraged me to find a better fit while putting me on an improvement plan that had goals that could not be measured (I.e. Improved stress management -- how do you plan to accurately measure if I am managing my stress?) The horizontal violence on my floor was impressive. And the "feedback" I had been getting prior was coming two weeks after the assignment they were talking about - and from a person who talked to a person (and the person speaking with me was never even on the unit the day that the feedback was focusing on).

I wanted to so much to do well the feedback I was getting was vague and often times contradicted itself (your not asking for help often enough [ well yes because the few times i did nurses said "No" while sitting at the front desk and checking e-mail] to - you are asking for too much help!)

I took some time after I quit to let myself settle (needless to say my confidence is slashed) - and I had a few other major life events happen right after I resigned leaving me needing time to find my footing.

Anyways - PM if you need someone else in a similar boat. I think some hospitals are somewhat known for these types of things (The majority of comments I have heard since was - oh well that hospital has a reputation for not being great with new grads).

How many years were you at your ICU? (I was only 10 months in).

I would definitely focus on your "reason for leaving." Advice I have been given from people who give interviews is - they know their is a reason you left or were terminated and if you "hide" it or down play it it might further spark a red flag. As for me I often say it was the "culture of the unit" that lead me to leave - because what it came down to was that there was major horizontal violence and I was very unhappy there - and that was acceptable on this specific unit.

Anyways - know you are not alone in this situation...unfortunately.

Mal-RN

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

"It was no longer a good fit. The culture of the unit was changing and I was not happy with it." Be prepared to give examples that aren't personal and don't downgrade the former employer.