question-predicting death

tewdles, RN · Oct 28, 2009

First off, type of cancer and location of mets can give us clues as to the things to look for as people decline toward death. We can often guesstimate death within a few days...but not always. Can you talk with your mom about this? She may well know, before her hospice nurse, that she has only a short time to live. Does your mom want you to be with her at time of death? If she does not, you may want to change your plans because she will have more control over that than you might think. Are you in regular contact with her hospice nurse? Did they give you any information which outlines the dying process for you? There are often things like loss of appetite, social withdrawal, etc that may help you to plan for a visit to your mom. There are a couple of excellent resources for families that your mom's hospice likely has access to. Ask them for some reading material. Good luck. I am sorry about your mom...

leslie :-D · Oct 28, 2009

If someone has ca with mets, how accurately can you predict when they will pass?
My mom has mets and I really want to be with her when she passes but I have kids and live farther away. I would be able to stay for 48 hours or so but I can't wait with her for weeks at a time.
Do you usually know death will be in the next 2 or 3 days.
Sorry, if this sounds like a stupid question but it's been bothering me.

i'm sorry to hear about your mom, ajax.:icon_hug:

when a pt is actively dying, it could take weeks.

this is the time when pts typically lose appetite, sleep more and become less functional.

however, when death is imminent, it usually doesn't take more than a couple of days.

this is when the pt has lost consciousness, and is in such a deep state, that the brain shows its irregularities in the breathing process.

so if someone can call you when mom is imminently dying, there's a decent chance you'll get there in time.

however, no guarantees at all.

the bottom line is our pts will go when they are good and ready...

i've had pts on the brink, only to come back and rally for a while, and then die w/o any type of warning.

the dying process is always predictably unpredictable.:)

perhaps you could visit her for a day or two, when she is deteriorating, as seen in actively dying.

i find it the ideal time to visit w/your loved ones, since the pt is alert and meaningful talks take place.

it is after these personal moments, that the pt can then die peacefully...

knowing s/he has seen all his/her loved ones.

let us know how it goes, ajax.

we're here for you.

leslie

ajaxgirl · Oct 29, 2009

First off, type of cancer and location of mets can give us clues as to the things to look for as people decline toward death. We can often guesstimate death within a few days...but not always. Can you talk with your mom about this? She may well know, before her hospice nurse, that she has only a short time to live. Does your mom want you to be with her at time of death? If she does not, you may want to change your plans because she will have more control over that than you might think. Are you in regular contact with her hospice nurse? Did they give you any information which outlines the dying process for you? There are often things like loss of appetite, social withdrawal, etc that may help you to plan for a visit to your mom. There are a couple of excellent resources for families that your mom's hospice likely has access to. Ask them for some reading material. Good luck. I am sorry about your mom...

She is not in hospice yet. TWO years ago she was diagnosed with mets to the liver. We are surprised she has lasted this long. She is now starting her last round of chemo. If this doesn't work -there is no further treatment. They said a 15% that it will work. Her appetite is declining and she is getting VERY out of breath when walking 15 feet.

I don't want to talk about this with her as she is not yet receptive.

Right now I am just thinking ahead. She may yet have a couple of months or a few weeks.

ajaxgirl · Oct 29, 2009

i'm sorry to hear about your mom, ajax.:icon_hug:
when a pt is actively dying, it could take weeks.
this is the time when pts typically lose appetite, sleep more and become less functional.
however, when death is imminent, it usually doesn't take more than a couple of days.
this is when the pt has lost consciousness, and is in such a deep state, that the brain shows its irregularities in the breathing process.
so if someone can call you when mom is imminently dying, there's a decent chance you'll get there in time.
however, no guarantees at all.
the bottom line is our pts will go when they are good and ready...
i've had pts on the brink, only to come back and rally for a while, and then die w/o any type of warning.
the dying process is always predictably unpredictable.:)
perhaps you could visit her for a day or two, when she is deteriorating, as seen in actively dying.
i find it the ideal time to visit w/your loved ones, since the pt is alert and meaningful talks take place.
it is after these personal moments, that the pt can then die peacefully...
knowing s/he has seen all his/her loved ones.
let us know how it goes, ajax.
we're here for you.
leslie

Thanks.

I don't live that far. It's just the juggle of kids in conjunction with this. My husband works an hour away. I am just trying to plan things in my mind. I would be DEVASTATED if I wasn't there when she passed. I would have to learn to cope with that, I guess

tewdles, RN · Oct 30, 2009

She is not in hospice yet. TWO years ago she was diagnosed with mets to the liver. We are surprised she has lasted this long. She is now starting her last round of chemo. If this doesn't work -there is no further treatment. They said a 15% that it will work. Her appetite is declining and she is getting VERY out of breath when walking 15 feet.
I don't want to talk about this with her as she is not yet receptive.
Right now I am just thinking ahead. She may yet have a couple of months or a few weeks.

I am sorry that your mom is SOB and declining toward death. It sounds like she would benefit from some symptom palliation. Does she have oxygen for her comfort? Are the docs addressing her anorexia? Is she sleeping well? Does she have pain, nausea, or anxiety? Is your mom fearful of death or dying? Does she have a spiritual or faith belief system regarding life and death and afterlife?

At the risk of sounding callous I am going to recommend that you speak to your mom about her cancer, the likelihood that this will be the end of her, and what she would want her death to look like both for herself and for her family. I am going to recommend that you do this soon, because she may not have much time left...and she deserves to know what her options are. She deserves to have the choice to spend her time with family and friends rather than getting chemo that is not improving her quality of life. You deserve to have some quality time with your mom before there is no quality time left.

leslie :-D · Oct 30, 2009

i'm totally with you, tewdles.

mom really needs to know, as soon as possible.

you can do this, ajax.

it's the right thing to do.:icon_hug:

leslie