Question about new PA mandatory overtime law

core0 · Jun 16, 2009

I was wondering if any other OR nurses in PA had heard of this in regards to the new law regarding mandatory overtime:
I work in an operating room in PA. The way our department is trying to get out of this is to say that when a patient arrives in the hospital and has an IV started, at that time his surgical procedure has begun. Our OR schedule is hopelessly optimistic, and a case that is scheduled to start at 12:00 may not get started until 3:00. At 3:00, we go from about 13-14 RNs down to 4. If I am told to stay and do the case and do not follow orders, I will be considered to have abandoned my patient, even though he may still be up in the preop area.
This is what we were told by management. Has anyone heard anything similar?

I don't think that its patient abandonment unless you accept the patient. This is from Tennessee but most states are similar:

A nurse-patient relation ship begins when a nurse accepts responsibility for a patient's nursing care.

For a nurse to be guilty of abandonment, the nurse must:

Accept the patient assignment, thus establishing a nurse-patient relationship; and then

Sever the nurse-patient relationship without giving reasonable notice to the appropriate persons, that is, a supervisor and the patient, so that arrangements can be made for continuation of nursing care by others.

The courts have softened the definition of abandonment somewhat.

The courts say that abandonment does not occur unless the nurse's patient or patients actually require nursing care before another nurse is able to take over.

In your case the patient needs a nurse, but has one in preop. Until you accept care of the patient you don't have any obligation to the patient and hence no patient abandonment. Thats my call any way. I am sure some of the Legal Nurse Consultants will chime in. You also could call the PSNA they probably have some literature on this. You could also let it happen then report it to the state.

David Carpenter, PA-C

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Jun 17, 2009

I believe it's not abandonment until the patient is signed out of holding by the circulator and/or is in the room. Like the PP said, the patient has a nurse in holding.

My state has a mandatory overtime law too and the hospitals fought tooth and nail against it...they lost.

MamaCheese · Jun 17, 2009

I would agree that the patient is not technically "your patient" until you've been given report. That's just horrible that management is trying to do that to you. What do the nurses with children do? Wouldn't it be considered child abandonment if they didn't show up at school/daycare to pick up their children at the end of the day :nono:

Siouxz2 · Jun 17, 2009

Personally, I think it's a load of crap that wouldn't hold up in court, but this is what they're telling us now. They basically told us, "this is how our lawyers told us to get around this pesky law." Our manager will quickly stroll through all the rooms telling everyone (in the most annoying sing-song voice, as if she is enjoying this), "Make whatever arrangements you have to--everybody's stuck today."

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Jun 18, 2009

Personally, I think it's a load of crap that wouldn't hold up in court, but this is what they're telling us now. They basically told us, "this is how our lawyers told us to get around this pesky law." Our manager will quickly stroll through all the rooms telling everyone (in the most annoying sing-song voice, as if she is enjoying this), "Make whatever arrangements you have to--everybody's stuck today."

Sounds like you guys need to start thinking of unionizing. I know some people don't believe in it, but ours enforces this law strictly. The hospital pays a fine everytime they violate it.

Even if you guys don't have a union, isn't there a number to call to report violations? Through the department of labor or BON..They have no leg to stand on at all.

Nikki Nurse · Jun 30, 2009

After finding out the legal aspect of this horrible issue (what contitutes "abandonment" from your State Board )I would get a group of nurses to complete the case which you are doing which is close to shift change and then ALL check out with whoever is in charge. Let them know that you have not accepted or even met the next patient who is in pre-op and that they currently have a nurse who is caring for them and that you will be leaving... and then do just that! Leave as a group. Things will then change. It sounds like you need some sort of call schedule so at least you'll know when you may have to stay late and you can plan your life around your call schedule as it sounds like you'll always be staying on your call night. Find out if this would constitute abandonment prior to implementing it but I bet that it does not. I wish you the best.