Richard Titmus wrote in his concept of social policy about what he called the 'stranger'. He said the ultimate in social policy is to give to the stranger because you recognise that she or he is the same as you. You don't give to the stranger because they are hungry or because they are tired but because you recognise the problems of hunger and tiredness. In other words you see them as part of yourself and part of what you are responsible for. If you see them as 'the Other, you don't get that sense of responsibility.
John Rawls, who talks about justice, also uses a similar sort of model by saying that if you punish other people you always have to work on the basis that it might happen to you, which is another formulation in a slightly different format.
It is a fact in the USA that 64 million people do not have health insurance, which means there is a third world country within a country that boasts to the world that it is apparently the best.
I for one am sick of hearing about the uninsured. Who are these people that don't have access to healthcare? I spend my nights taking care of those without health insurance, and they get the same treatment as those who have it. It seems to me that the media would have a nonstop parade of people turned away from the hospital if they existed. Perhaps they don't? As to the theory that our system doesn't treat people until they are really sick, please note the ER full of minor ailments such as runny nose, diarreha x1 day, and the oh so common abd pain unspecified. Everyone in this country has adequate health care regardless of ability to pay.
Anyone who says there is no difference in care between the insured and the uninsured is either lying or blissfully ignorant. There is a big difference. They can still get care in the ER, but that hardly makes it the same as those with insurance. If it was, I wouldn't be paying to be insured.
Anyone who says there is no difference in care between the insured and the uninsured is either lying or blissfully ignorant. There is a big difference. They can still get care in the ER, but their care is not the same. If it was, I wouldn't be paying to be insured.
I have to dissagree. At my hospital the uninsured are given the best care that the hospital has to offer. There is no test from labs to MRI's that they don't get. We have social workers crawling all over the place telling patients not to worry about ability to pay. Home health, transportation, dialysis, most medications, meals for family members visiting them in the hospital, and just about anything else you can think of is made available to those who can't pay. Our hospital provided approximately 1.3 billion dollars in care last year, 633 million was paid for by patients and their insureres. Who paid the rest? thats right the goverment in the form of medicaid.
I still have yet to see any difference in care except for maybe more services offered to those who can't pay.
Everyone in this country has adequate health care regardless of ability to pay.
Brickman, I don't know which part of the country you live in, however not everyone has adequate healthcare regardless of ability to pay. I hear from patients daily without health insurance and ineligible for the programs we do have available, due to state of residence. Docs at private hospitals refuse to do surgery on those without insurance...causing them to be sent to the facility where I work. The docs do the surgery & the patient pays. There are any numbe of physicians who do not accept self-pay patients. Our public clinics are seeing them...both those in our state and folks from across one of the state lines nearby. There is frequently a one to two month wait for a visit at one of these clinics.
It's not hopeless, mind you. We have private initiatives coming together to provide health care for those who don't qualify for other programs. It's not a perfect way to do things...it's just what we've got to work with now.
Eltrip, that is right, there are county hospitals and public clinics for the uninsured, which is probably equal to the national healthcare for all in the other countries. However, with our system, we have choices. If we choose to investigate grants, scholarships, and loans we can become educated, get a job that provides insurance and have access to very high quality health care. And because so many go that route, I get to keep more of my hard earned money instead of being the government's cash cow for providing less than excellent health care for all. Equal rights and equal opportunity for anyone with the gumption to go for it----> that is what makes America great. I do suppose it is difficult for someone to understand if you do not live in this country, but we are only limited in our prospects by our own lack of ambition. We don't "keep" or "make" anyone poor, and we have plenty of social programs for those who are. God Bless America!
Where I work, it seems to us nurses that if you have no insurance you get BETTER treatment than if you have it. I have seen people with no insurance get admitted and get the "million dollar" workup since they are not going to pay for it after all so what does it matter while those with insurance get limited testing due to the limitations put on by the insurance companies...there's some food for thought.
i'm not falling for the election year hype which makes all problems in our country into crises. headlines have to be sensational, but reality is not nearly that bad.
as a low income person, i was offered the opportunity to purchase insurance in lots of basic jobs: waitress, landscaper, cashier, sales clerk. in my experience, many people choose not to purchase insurance. lots of single 20-30 year olds would rather have more disposable income. choice is not always a great thing, but the choice exists.....a vacation, big tv,etc. or insurance. we are a very consumer driven society in which lots of people like to live at the edge of their means.
i only work 20-30 hours a week as a clerk in the hospital er. i'm purchasing insurance. a fellow student works in medication assistance getting free medication for those who can't afford their prescription. i just learned of a program for those who have too much income for medicare which offers low cost insurance in my area. i will agree that there is a portion of uninsured who have a problem accessing information on programs that offer healthcare assistance, but anyone can just walk in the er.
universal vs private healthcare...no system seems perfect. my english friend brought her father over here for heart surgery, rather than risk the extended wait.
here's some healthcare headlines from a london newspapers:
this one sounds awful..80yr old blind veteran can't get foot care
Universal vs private healthcare...No system seems perfect. My English friend brought her father over here for heart surgery, rather than risk the extended wait.
I agree, ncwendy. One of my colleagues has discussed (with great dissatisfaction) the extended wait for a cardiac procedure in Great Britain that would have been done within a week on this side of the pond.
Dplear, now that you mention it, I have often seen that too. And, on that note, I just realized some of the other things I have seen that make me crazy! We have had medicare and medicaid patients whose families start taking notes as soon as we enter the room, writing down every move we make and everything we say. Also had one pt. whose family flipped on a tape recorder everytime we came into the room! Gee, what do you suppose they were hoping to do with all this "evidence"?
Sorry, but I wouldn't exactly consider the World Socialist Web Site a credible source. Particularly in light of the fact that the article itself quotes a different figure:
The report notes in passing that the Current Population Survey of the US Census Bureau estimated that there were 43.6 million people in the US in 2003 without health insurance of any kind...
Nice try, though. Your quoted figures are incorrect. And so far, you have completely failed to answer any of other points that have been made by myself or others. Of course, we have the news stories of people in your perfect system dying while on waiting lists for surgery.
So how do you explain queues of people waiting for hours, starting at 4am, to get an appointment to see a physician for something as simple as a sore throat? How about the 60-year old man with heart problems, who needs a heart transplant being told 'sorry, you're 60, so you don't qualify'? How about being told 'sure, you can see a doctor for a suspected UTI, come back in four weeks (this happened to me, back in 1985 while I lived in Winchester)? The health system in the UK is a mess, no matter how you slice it (no pun intended).
When I lived in N. Idaho, we had doctors leaving Canada to open practices in the US, since they literally couldn't afford to feed their families with the ridiculous taxes they had to pay, not to mention the reams and reams of paperwork they had to deal with. Socialized medicine is not the answer.
At the hospitals I did my clinicals in, EVERYONE was treated, regardless of whether they had insurance or not.
Brickman
129 Posts
I for one am sick of hearing about the uninsured. Who are these people that don't have access to healthcare? I spend my nights taking care of those without health insurance, and they get the same treatment as those who have it. It seems to me that the media would have a nonstop parade of people turned away from the hospital if they existed. Perhaps they don't? As to the theory that our system doesn't treat people until they are really sick, please note the ER full of minor ailments such as runny nose, diarreha x1 day, and the oh so common abd pain unspecified. Everyone in this country has adequate health care regardless of ability to pay.