PNP or FNP for increased job opportunities?

[rnmindy]

Ok, I have applied for the University of South Alabama for their PNP-PC program and I really have only ever done Peds. I absolutely know that I don't want to do adults. I keep being told that I really need to do the FNP program because by only doing PNP I am severly restricting my job opportunities after graduation. I was told the same thing when graduating nursing school, that I should work on a Medicine unit for at least a year then transfer to a more specialized area. I NEVER worked on a Medicine or Telemetry unit and don't have the desire to. My location is south Louisiana. What are your thoughts as far as finding a PNP position in this area pretty easily after graduation? Thanks in advance for your input.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Being certified in the population doesn't equal "basically the same education" as another has stated. Saying "basically the same education" suggests the PNP program is filled with "stuff" to take up time. What else are we doing with our time if the FNP learns basically the same thing in a semester? It just isn't reasonable to say the FNP gets basically the same eduction. Yes they are educated to care for the pediatric population. That doesn't mean equally educated in that population as the PNP.[/quote']

You don't have to get upset about it, no one is saying that the PNP curriculum is fluff.

You will learn quickly when you get into practice that a novice NP is a novice NP. You are prepared for entry to practice and must learn from that pint forward. As student NPs the tendency is to wax poetic about practice because it is still all theory.

Ultimately, when you are hired, it will be assumed you have the basic competency to enter practice. The education is "basically the same" as you put it because both tracks prepare you for that. No more no less. You take it from there.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Well if this is the game we are playing, are you a PNP? No? Then it is pretty much impossible for you to know that yes, PNPs have a much more in depth, focused education on pediatric populations than FNPs.

The fact that I haven't completed any of these programs does give my opinion less weight in the discussion. I recognize that.

This is actually a large reason pediatricians here aren't hiring FNPs. They don't have enough prescribing knowledge in pediatrics.

The poster you are talking to is an FNP and has a quite staggering amount of experience and education. He may not be a PNP but he is a APRN, and APRN practice is different from anything you currently have practical experience in. In all honestly your opinion is an opinion but in several years, if you complete training as an APRN, you may think differently about your opinion. In example, you are commenting on pharmacology education with no education in pharmacology, so I am not quite sure how you can make a judgement on what can and can't be taught.

As far as local offices not hiring FNPs, what city/town are you in. I will call a local office with my resume and see if they would be interesting in hiring me, as I find it hard to believe that all the local practices blanket-refuse to hire FNPs for pediatrics. If your local program is awful then they would refuse grads from that program. It all FNPs.

[Dr.Naija_Glam]

To all posts saying FNPs aren't as well trained as PNPs in peds pharm. , as an FNP, I will say both PNPs and FNPs are well prepared to care for the pediatric population. At the university I attended, FNPs and PNPs take the same pediatric courses. If a program doesn't provide its FNP students with the same quality education in pediatric pharmacology as its PNP students, its doing the students and society a disservice. Some employers prefer PNPs for pediatric practice and some don't care. It comes down to patient outcomes and revenue. If FNPs could not prescribe safely for kids, how are FNPs finding employment at top pediatric hospitals in the U.S.? I know of a pediatrician who didn't want to hire an FNP because she didn't know NPs were trained to care for kids unless they were PNPs. When I showed her my skills during clinicals (and my curriculum) she wanted to hire me after graduation, but I already had a job lined up.

Rnmindy should go the route that she's passionate about. It may be hard for her to find PNP jobs but it depends on the area she wants to work. I work in pediatrics and know that I provide superior care for my patients and I don't give a hoot about what any naysayers have to say.

I don't take offense from you saying that PNPs are better prepared to care for pediatric patients because I know that you are incorrect. Yes there are differences in NP programs, but all certified FNPs are prepared to provide safe, evidenced based care to kids.

[IrishIzCPNP, MSN, RN, APRN, NP]

To all posts saying FNPs aren't as well trained as PNPs in peds pharm. as an FNP, I will say both PNPs and FNPs are well prepared to care for the pediatric population. At the university I attended, FNPs and PNPs take the same pediatric courses. If a program doesn't provide its FNP students with the same quality education in pediatric pharmacology as its PNP students, its doing the students and society a disservice. Some employers prefer PNPs for pediatric practice and some don't care. It comes down to patient outcomes and revenue. If FNPs could not prescribe safely for kids, how are FNPs finding employment at top pediatric hospitals in the U.S.? I know of a pediatrician who didn't want to hire an FNP because she didn't know NPs were trained to care for kids unless they were PNPs. When I showed her my skills during clinicals (and my curriculum) she wanted to hire me after graduation, but I already had a job lined up. Rnmindy should go the route that she's passionate about. It may be hard for her to find PNP jobs but it depends on the area she wants to work. I work in pediatrics and know that I provide superior care for my patients and I don't give a hoot about what any naysayers have to say. I don't take offense from you saying that PNPs are better prepared to care for pediatric patients because I know that you are incorrect. Yes there are differences in NP programs, but all certified FNPs are prepared to provide safe, evidenced based care to kids.[/quote']

Nobody actually said one is better than the other. But the training between the 2 in regards to peds isn't "basically the same". The FNP isn't getting as much training specific to peds as the PNP. They just aren't. Nobody said they aren't qualified to care for kids.

I actually wouldn't take my kids to an FNP. I also won't take my kids to a family doctor. My kids only see pediatric specialized providers (including their dentist). Now when my daughter is aged out of the peds office...I would very much encourage her to see an FNP over an MD/DO.

The education isn't "basically the same". Is it basically the same as WH? Yes? I mean you learn that too in FNP programs.

We specialize for a reason. The speciality education is a selling point for NPs. So let's not start acting like FNP training is "basically the same" as other specialties in that specific specialty.

[ixchel]

Boston, if you are genuine in your request, I'll PM you the name of the most recent MD I discussed this with. The pharmacology thing was one of the reasons why he cited he no longer hires FNPs.

The comment about not having a PNP and therefore not knowing was meant in sarcasm, and I apologize if that didn't translate. I felt the comment it was responding to was a bit rude, and I did follow it up we the acknowledgment that my lack of experience does mean I have less weight in the conversation.

Anyway, I concede my point as it is lost in inexperience. But I will ask you this, and this has been inferred already - what do you feel is the difference between FNP and PNP, if not to further explore specifically pediatrics in depth? I don't at all doubt that an FNP has adequate preparation in pediatrics for practice. I never said they were lacking in the ability to work with the pediatric population. My only point is that PNP more fully explores pediatrics as they spend the main bulk of their curriculum only learning and working in peds. It is a deeper level of education specifically on peds because that is the purpose of the degree. It's not an insult to FNPs by any means. The depth and focus SHOULD be different. It doesn't take away from one to say that the other has different emphasis or depth in one topic. I would trust (and have trusted) FNPs to care for any member of my family, so please don't feel I think less of EITHER area of education. So..... What do you feel is the difference between the two?

To be completely honest with you, I'm blown away with the amount of stuff that FNPs do get through in their programs, and have a ton of respect for those who go that route because you DO have to gain enough knowledge of every type of population to be capable of entering practice anywhere. Like the OP, I've struggled with the PNP or FNP question. It's definitely a valid one, and I thank you each for your perspectives and for sharing them with those of us who DON'T have the experience to back up our opinions.

[nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NP]

What school and program?

I take advanced pharmacology and I take a peds pharmacology. What doesn't add up about that?

[hubcaps]

Going a back to the original question, I would say go for a PNP program. I get asked this question a lot from my friends because I was a PICU RN and I am now a FNP. If you have no interest in caring for adults don't do FNP. Don't do it because the market is better. You don't want a job that you'll hate. FNP positions are heavily adult focused. I did FNP because I like both adults and peds. I do terribly miss taking care of kids (I see them once in a blue moon).

You will get more extensive training in peds by doing PNP. The school I went to is highly ranked in FNP and PNP and my FNP program did not go into as much depth as the PNP program. I learned well child and basic sick visits. My PNP friends learned about chronic care issues and some acute/in patient care. If you do PNP, you'll have more peds options. I know one of the childrens hospitals near me will hire new grad PNPs, but only FNPs if they've worked in their hospital for a few years (I forgot the exact number).

[nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NP]

Again, no offense but finish your RN, get you NP and you may have some credibility. You examples are uneducated. Yes, it does give you less weight when you are not an NP or even an RN yet.

Giving an example of metabolism differences is silly. Your statement of "pediatricians not hiring FNPs because they don't have enough pediatric prescribing knowledge is just idiotic. LOL

Sorry, that was very amusing.

When you take an advanced pharm class, you will get the pharmacokinetics, pharmacodynamics and even pharmacogenetics. You may start to understand at that point.

Truly your reasoning is way off the wall.

On the pediatricians not hiring FNPs. Just look at the job postings for pecs. The vast majority specify FNP OR PNP. Many just say NP. Here is a news flash, They don't know the difference, nor do they care.

I see kids on a daily basis. I've not seen a pediatrician or PNP in YEARS.

Well if this is the game we are playing, are you a PNP? No? Then it is pretty much impossible for you to know that yes, PNPs have a much more in depth, focused education on pediatric populations than FNPs. Sorry, but that is just the truth. (P.S. Simply saying something is the truth doesn't make it so.)

And to the poster above me who indicated that a half semester in peds and women's health does not make a quality program, I 1,000,000% agree and it is largely what made me decide I have no interest in completing my graduate degree there. It's a shame, too, because I love face to face learning and this is the only brick and mortar school with 2 hours of here with graduate programs.

I've been quite obsessively studying the differences between all of the programs I could reasonably apply to and attend after graduating with my BSN and the differences in courses, expectations, and depth of knowledge are pretty large. Nomad, I will give you this much. It's very possible the programs you've been exposed to DID do pediatrics justice, but not all do. (For example, the FNP at my university with its half semester in peds.) You can't make blanketed statements expressing that all PNP programs and all FNP programs give the same level of preparation in pediatrics. The fact that I haven't completed any of these programs does give my opinion less weight in the discussion. I recognize that. However, with this being the path I am considering in my life, and the level of research I've done on the topic (I can't stress the word "obsessively" enough), there are differences in the programs, pediatric populations do have different needs, and those needs are examined with lengthier detail in a PNP program.

This is bugging me, so I'm just going to say it.... Even with my almost BSN, one of the things that has been stressed pretty clearly is that metabolism of medications is different in children due to immature organs developing and rapidly changing weight. Now, can this be addressed in a regular advanced pharmacology class? Probably, but I did want to point out that the need for instruction based specifically on pediatric populations is there, whether FNP or PNP. This is actually a large reason pediatricians here aren't hiring FNPs. They don't have enough prescribing knowledge in pediatrics.

[nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NP]

What you don't seem to understand is that the pharm courses ARE THE SAME. How many times do we have to post it. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

IF there were a difference, the school would be going against all the major NP organizations as well as the consensus model.

Boston, if you are genuine in your request, I'll PM you the name of the most recent MD I discussed this with. The pharmacology thing was one of the reasons why he cited he no longer hires FNPs.

The comment about not having a PNP and therefore not knowing was meant in sarcasm, and I apologize if that didn't translate. I felt the comment it was responding to was a bit rude, and I did follow it up we the acknowledgment that my lack of experience does mean I have less weight in the conversation.

Anyway, I concede my point as it is lost in inexperience. But I will ask you this, and this has been inferred already - what do you feel is the difference between FNP and PNP, if not to further explore specifically pediatrics in depth? I don't at all doubt that an FNP has adequate preparation in pediatrics for practice. I never said they were lacking in the ability to work with the pediatric population. My only point is that PNP more fully explores pediatrics as they spend the main bulk of their curriculum only learning and working in peds. It is a deeper level of education specifically on peds because that is the purpose of the degree. It's not an insult to FNPs by any means. The depth and focus SHOULD be different. It doesn't take away from one to say that the other has different emphasis or depth in one topic. I would trust (and have trusted) FNPs to care for any member of my family, so please don't feel I think less of EITHER area of education. So..... What do you feel is the difference between the two?

To be completely honest with you, I'm blown away with the amount of stuff that FNPs do get through in their programs, and have a ton of respect for those who go that route because you DO have to gain enough knowledge of every type of population to be capable of entering practice anywhere. Like the OP, I've struggled with the PNP or FNP question. It's definitely a valid one, and I thank you each for your perspectives and for sharing them with those of us who DON'T have the experience to back up our opinions.

[ixchel]

Again no offense but finish your RN, get you NP and you may have some credibility. You examples are uneducated. Yes, it does give you less weight when you are not an NP or even an RN yet. Giving an example of metabolism differences is silly. Your statement of "pediatricians not hiring FNPs because they don't have enough pediatric prescribing knowledge is just idiotic. LOL Sorry, that was very amusing. When you take an advanced pharm class, you will get the pharmacokinetics, pharmacodynamics and even pharmacogenetics. You may start to understand at that point. Truly your reasoning is way off the wall. On the pediatricians not hiring FNPs. Just look at the job postings for pecs. The vast majority specify FNP OR PNP. Many just say NP. Here is a news flash, They don't know the difference, nor do they care. I see kids on a daily basis. I've not seen a pediatrician or PNP in YEARS. [/quote']

Nomad, I have tried to be polite, and I have humbled myself to your credentials a couple of times now. You are being quite rude, and I really don't understand what the point in belittling someone who actually asked a sincere question is. Following "no offense, but..." with words like uneducated, silly and idiotic, is a bit contradictory. If being up on that pedestal is where I need to be to engage in a productive dialog with you, then no, thanks. I'm quite okay down here.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread, but I still would actually like to hear what experienced NPs do feel the actual difference between FNP and PNP education is. I'm thinking heavily about career choices and want to sort anecdote from fact. So, Boston, or anyone with practical experience willing to answer without belittling me for not apparently understanding up to this point, please will you PM me?

[nomadcrna, DNP, CRNA, NP]

You are right, I apologize. I just get so irritated when non-NPs or even RN come to the forum and give uneducated information. Some people reading it may actually believe it.

[Dr.Naija_Glam]

Nobody actually said one is better than the other. But the training between the 2 in regards to peds isn't "basically the same". The FNP isn't getting as much training specific to peds as the PNP. They just aren't. Nobody said they aren't qualified to care for kids.

I actually wouldn't take my kids to an FNP. I also won't take my kids to a family doctor. My kids only see pediatric specialized providers (including their dentist). Now when my daughter is aged out of the peds office...I would very much encourage her to see an FNP over an MD/DO.

The education isn't "basically the same". Is it basically the same as WH? Yes? I mean you learn that too in FNP programs.

We specialize for a reason. The speciality education is a selling point for NPs. So let's not start acting like FNP training is "basically the same" as other specialties in that specific specialty.

Well, I did have the same training as the primary care PNPs in my program because I took all the same classes as they did. I cannot speak on WHNP education, but I have an FNP friend who works at an ob/gyn office along with WHNPs and does all of the same things such as paps, contraceptive rx, contraceptive insertions (IUD, implanon), prenatal care, and fertility counseling. When it comes to FNPs, PNPs, and ANPs the main difference is age range. There are also differences when it comes patient acuity scopes (primary vs acute care).

I never said FNP education is the same as all other APN specialties. FNP education isn't "basically the same" as other APNs such as CRNAs or NMWs. However, when it comes to primary care FNPs and primary care PNPs the training is exactly the same. When I finished my program I was working in a primary care peds clinic with other PNPs (and FNPs ) and performed the same tasks that they did. I was only there a two months though because I wanted to work inpatient peds which is where I am now.

I also looked at your profile IrishIzRN and it doesn't list you as a NP so I'm unsure of your understanding of all types of NPs, where they can practice, and what they can do. Finally, in regards to your kids, it's your right to take them to the provider you feel is best.