Please Help...should I self report?

Karl Farmer · Jul 11, 2011

When reality is reality, it's not a matter of opinion. Sad, but true.

jackstem · Jul 12, 2011

Karl Farmer said:

Do not ever contact a nursing BON unless you have zero options remaining. They exist solely to separate you from your license.

And when you MUST contact them due to a complaint and/or an investigation, do it through a license defense attorney. The board has attorneys advising them...you should have no less (unless of course you subscribe to the notion that the board is there to "help" you. They are not. The individual nurse doesn't matter one little bit to the board of nursing).

We (nurses with the lousy DISEASE of addiction) have a tendency to develop verbal diarrhea when the board comes calling. We seem to think if we can just explain everything (and get them to like us), all will be OK. Unfortunately when we do this we often provide more information than is necessary. We also forget (or don't even realize) ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING WE SAY TO THE BOARD (or their investigator) WILL BE USED AGAINST US!

We are not bad people trying to become good. We have a chronic, progressive, potentially fatal disease and are trying to become well. Sadly, most of our colleagues don't believe this (even though many say they do...just words). This includes members of the BON.

Jack

lzink · Jul 12, 2011

Right on Jack Farmer!

lzink

all_over_again · Jul 12, 2011

Jack, I love you because I can feel how much you care, but where on earth are downtrodden, addicted nurses supposed to come up with thousands of dollars? From what I understand, you work for an attorney and the attorney's job is to make his or her services seem indispensible. I get it.

Personally, I find the whole system fraught with conflicts of interest. The board has attorneys who make it impossible to retain a license without the assistance of another attorney, without regard for any evidence the unrepresented nurse presents to prove his or her abstinence and recovery.

After all of your "get an attorney, get an attorney" posts, you subsequently recommend that the nurse follow the nearly impossible demands of his or her impaired nurses program. What's the point? Follow the program without a lawyer and they screw you. Follow the program in the exact same manner but pay lots of money and then you'll be okay. Doesn't that scream of an ethics issue to you?

You only get to play the game if you have money to burn. It's the American way, I suppose.

lzink · Jul 13, 2011

Dear All Over Again,

I have done it both ways with and without an attorney. Twice the attorney made thousands of dollars and I lost anyway, once the attorney made thousands of dollars and I got my license. I'm getting ready to go around one more time for reinstatement. I paid and attorney thousands of dollars and he used to represent the bon, he made two "errors" on my application on the first page, for this he made money, when I made a mistake I was charged with "fraud." Go figure. So I fired him, put my faith in God.

Here is my most profound issue with the bon. THE LACK OF TRANSPARENCY!!!!!

I am not aware of any legal system that is allowed to function without the person being discussed cannot be present. A convicted felon is allowed to attend his/her parole hearing! However, in some instances where the nurse cannot see the evidence, or attend a meeting his/her lawyer can!!!! Does that make sense to anyone? How does one defend oneself? A common criminal can be appointed an attorney by the courts and is allowed "discovery", depositions can be taken, he/she has the right to cross examine his/her accuser, and can present evidence. Every state is different, but in one state I was given 5 minutes to present any evidence I had to the bon. I had a handwritten letter from another RN stating how we disposed of shattered vials (3) of demerol or MSO4 can't remember. She and I disposed of these shattered vials just as nurses do all over the country thousands of times a day......the bon NEVER contacted her. Here is how I see things now...if they want you, their gonna get you.

As long as the bon's are allowed to operate without impunity the same injustices are going to occur and reoccur. And while I'm venting a little here, I am also up to here with being disrespected in letters and emails from the bon.

I would like to close this letter to you by saying that it is your sobriety that is most important at all times. Talk to your sponsor, go to meetings and vent these frustrations you have, and quite rightly so...don't let them get you down, tomorrow is another day and who knows what good the day might have in store for you. I understand you, and I feel for you, you are not alone. Linda

Karl Farmer · Jul 13, 2011

In fact, I suspect BONs are sovereign entities, and that an outside lawyer has little that he can do as a result. I don't see BONs as answerable to anybody, really.

jackstem · Jul 13, 2011

There is absolutely nothing I can say to change anyone's mind about whether hiring an attorney is worth the money or not. What I can do is share my experience as a peer advisor who has dealt with nurses who have done it with an attorney and those who haven't. What I've seen is the nurse who tries to represent themselves consistently comes out on the short end of the stick. If I had a family member facing the BON...I'd recommend they retain an attorney. If they didn't have the money, I'd do what I could to help them out. Of course there are bad attorneys out there. There are bad doctors out there as well. Do you recommend someone not be treated by a doctor because some really suck?

Most nurses don't know the nurse practice act as well as they should, or understand how administrative law functions in order to represent themselves effectively. I understand how getting "burned" by a crappy attorney leaves a bad taste in your mouth, but I've seen the difference an effective attorney can make. That's why I'll keep recommending them. This is one of those times where we'll have to agree to disagree.

I appreciate the fact that you recognized I do care about what happens to a nurse (or anyone) who ends up with this lousy disease. Until more of our colleagues understand this disease, I'll at least have something to do with my time...which means I won't be driving my kids crazy!

jack

Karl Farmer · Jul 13, 2011

I've said it before- lawyers? You can't live with them, and you can't live WITHOUT them.

lzink · Jul 13, 2011

Dear Karl,

I read your post in regards to whom the bon is accountable to. If you read my last post this is a huge concern to me. What other government entity do you know of that is allowed to operate with little or no transparency or accountability? Where does the "freedom of information act" fit in here? Yet the bon has no problem publishing my name, the status of my license, and the details of the "Findings of Fact" on the internet! Does anyone other than myself have a problem with this?

Karl Farmer · Jul 13, 2011

When I was in FL, the BON published all nurses addresses on the internet. Is this really the United States?

all_over_again · Jul 13, 2011

Yep... Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, decided by a jury of one's peers... unless one is a registered nurse with a brain disease.

I think even Casey Anthony will have the privilege of living in an "undisclosed location".

lzink · Jul 13, 2011

I am going for reinstatement, this is what I found out. An Rn Investigator will review my documents, she will then talk to the chair of the reinstatement committee (who is an LPN, nothing against LPN's I was one for twenty years) by phone this one person has two choices. One to reinstate my license or forward my case onto the full board for a decision. How do you like those apples?