Philippine Board of Nursing to stop Second Coursers from taking up Nursing

hey, i'm glad to all those who responded. if i did offend anyone, it's not my intention. like y'all, i'm just expressing my opinion and i'm glad that you've expressed yours as well. all of them.. taken to consideration...

although i think my post has been taken in the wrong light:

for everyone who has reacted, my post had a syntax error. i'm sorry i just type right out and not edit my posts, which i probably should do. i don't think not letting the 2nd coursers is the solution to the brain drain. i.e.-- prohibitting the 2nd coursers is not the solution to the brain drain. there... i'm sorry if that riled you up, but i am a firm believer of freedom, too. i hate restrictions, and am an active member of my union... so i'm sorry for instigating something that isn't there. and i also believe that no one can make you do something you don't want to.

i have done a research in nursing school about foreign nurses (not just filipino), because my mom is one, too. she came here 1981.. i was interested in the nurses' points of view as they make the transition. one of the things that came up in that research (which was published in a nursing journal) was the difference in the quality of nursing in the states and other countries where foreign nurses come from, philippines included. nurses, they said, were treated more like a professional here in the states. they have a say in their patient's care and they could advocate for their patients without being asked "what med school did you go to?? " (although, i heard in some places in the us-- this has happend too so... ) even my mom would say that what she did was more tasky and less thinking. maybe times have changed, please feel free to enlighten me. like what nursewannabe has said, "if opportunities for respectable pay and growth are only available in the phils., i believe no pinoy in his right mind will ever want to be separated from his loved ones and struggle to fit in a foreign land just to earn a living." i believe that if i am making a difference and still getting paid decent, i'd rather be with my family than in a foreign place without my loved ones. and plus, i didn't say that for sure they'll stay, i said they will have second thoughts of leaving.

after all that, hence my 2nd point. maybe a solution to the "bleeding" is to have an arduous screening or hiring process. they should only pick those who deserve to leave and not just those who have the money for application, etc, because if you hired someone who doesn't do well (i guess, some are offended with the word slacker-- sorry for the lack of a better term) and couldn't keep up, then what?? i'm not saying that filipino nurses who graduated in the phlippines are slackes or not smart or couldn't handle the job... far from it! my mom and my colleagues here in the hospital who graduated in pinas are some of the smartest and sharpest nurses that i've known. my point is make sure that the nurses (may they be 1st or 2nd coursers) that come here can deal with the stresses of speaking a new language, advocating for their parents, knwoing their skills and theories and applying it all at the same time, especially when the doctor's are on their backs pressuring, etc. i know these could all be learned in time, but once you are in the unit, you need to be ready and since we are dealing with lives-- there's almost no room for mistakes. we need nurses who can keep up, because like it or not, some of our american counterparts do not like the fact that the job market is being taken over by minorities. however, some like the extra help foreign nurses give. again, going back to this paper that i read, the foreign nurses who were surveyed said speaking english, talking to doctors and advocating for their patients were very challenging at first. now, this research paper i have read 3 years ago, if things have changed, please let me know of any research based paper/ journal and i would like to read it and update myself.

i do understand that there are slackers everywhere, and i do consider myself a slacker when it comes to household chores. but we were talking about nursing so... plus, forgive me, i just use the word slacker in my day to day that i don't see that it may be offensive to some. my aplogies.

on second thought, why does the government even care if a person is a 1st or 2nd courser?? some ppl here in the states have 5 degrees and we don't give a cr** they don't expect you to just stick with one, that's hindering personal growth if you ask me. there shouldn't even be an issue...

whew... that being said, the image of filipinos here in the states, in general, is that we are hard working and dedicated. now, if the nurses that they start sending could not keep up, then what? theyd start looking more in japan? korea? australia? right now the philippines is a good choice because of the image that the ofw had established before they were here. that was just my concern, and point over all. true, there are slackers in every job, but not every job entrusts you with a person's life and there is no room to slack off when ur dealing with something that important...

about me: nursing is my first course (though definitely not my first choice, i wanted to be a doctor and my mom- being a nurse - suggested that i take nursing as my premed- i like nursing now- i'd rather be a np than go back to medschool), i graduated bsn in washington state and i moved here to ca for personal reasons. i've never worked in the philippines, though to be honest, i would love to go back and help improve the status of nursing by teaching. a martyr, no... patriotic...yes (i grew up in a phil. air force family). i just wanted to make this clear that i support nurses who come here, because one, my mom came here as a foreign nurse, two, i have tremendous respect to people who could risk being away from their family so that they could offer them a better life. it was actually a compliment when lawrence01 thought i graduated in pinas. plus, i am here in this forum because i am curious with what's going on in filipino nursing.

Sorry, but you should have been more responsible in posting and its perfectly ok if your opinion contadicts others. This is what the forum is for.

It's not just that one line you edited. It's the whole post. The readers pretty much deduced that the whole post's point really jived with the original unedited line and the new edited line is now out of context with your whole post.

Anyway, these was a healthy exchange of ideas and opinions and Im glad that everything was kept friendly. Peace. :)

I agree in healthy discussions, but I have to say what I really meant. I apologize if some are looking for arguments that aren't there. Sometimes, that's just how things are. You can take my post as you may, obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And I did take responsiblity for my post, hence the apology of not editing.

I reread my first entry, and my premises have supported my idea. But, enough of that, I can keep rubbing the same stone but people will believe what they want. Hence, there's no reason to defend my post, I have elaborated it on my last. I said my piece.

hi, IseeU_rn! it's nice to hear from a second generation fil-am nurse...

i suspected that you missed "NOT" in your statement as you went on to give your 2 cents on alternative "solutions" (better treatment and tough screening). however, taking your points independently (minus the cause-effect), i still felt compelled to air what i thought, too. don't worry, i wasn't offended. (this is a free forum. so long as you don't attack characters, you should be fine). i sensed, too, that you were speaking, er, posting, from a rather impersonal perspective, not really first-hand while a good number of active "posters" speak from what they actually experience. it's altogether a good thing because we learn from one another. so keep posting! =)

i tend to equate better pay with proper treatment of nurses because i suppose money is the most obvious (and useful) form of recognition. besides, i've been hearing different things about the treatment pinay nurses get. one says she felt more like your mom who was given more responsibilities (and less "tasky" work) when she came here while the other felt she had more responsibilities in rp than when she found herself working in a home here in the us. but the nature of nursing, i guess, speaks for itself. it's really a job that employs physical, mental, emotional and psychological effort. and i've long convinced myself that anywhere, i'll still encounter not-so-nice people and unless i take things in stride, i'll end up bitter and burned-out. i'm risking the image of being money-hungry but from what i know, it's a daily struggle to live with a nurse's wages in rp, especially if you have kids in the city. it's IMPOSSIBLE to own a home and send your children to good schools, let alone college. for most pinoys, going abroad is almost always the only way to afford a modest house.

pinoys indeed possess the edge when it comes to understanding english as compared with other nationalities. however, when in comes to speaking american english, there could be some difficulties, too, but nothing really too serious that can't be corrected. i've experienced many bloopers myself, mostly laughable. i think many newly "planted" pinoys find speaking english hard because of fear of being misunderstood and possibly ridiculed for their "accent" to some extent. pinoys tend to speak the way they write (in english) and emphatic in pronouncing their vowels unlike the ordinary born and raised american, who tend to clip their words short. (Mcmahon=Mcmhan, comfortable=comf'tble). also, americans have a penchant for A LOT of expressions that could space out the average pinoy. but of course, with exposure (and a lot of watching tv), pinoys pick up fast. at least american english is far more familiar to many u.s.-tv watching pinoys than probably, australian or the queen's english. if the person is having a hard time understanding me, i exaggerate my long a's....hahahaha. anybody there who have other techniques to share???

about "bleeding" or "brain drain", we often refer to it as a problem bec. pinoys educated and trained (nurses, teachers, it professionals even engineers from awhile back) in rp practice their profession abroad. instead of rp benefitting from their skills/training, other nations do. isn't that sad? in filipino, "ikaw ang nagtanim, iba ang kumain" (you planted but someone else harvested or ate it) or something to that effect. we hoped that these professionals look into building their own country but because of their own REAL need and the answer lurking overseas, who can make them? like many of the posts, the only solution is to make it economically viable for the regular pinoy to remain in the phils. ease the disparity between the rich and the poor. decades ago, we looked at the lowly galunggong (that's some freshwater fish) as the poor pinoy's meal and years later, it has been replaced by the cup noodles (like the ones that come in 6-8 packs to a dollar). i saw from a documentary that there are pinoys and their young children eating cup noodles a day as a decent meal. i was shocked.

i strongly feel that inorder for things to work out for the phils., the administration shouldn't get in the way of those wanting to work abroad. support them after all, the remittances present a bridge toward allowing changes to occur in the country, that is, hopefully, with wise allocation. i earnestly hope that things will be better in the phils. because in time, i'd still want to go home.

I agree in healthy discussions, but I have to say what I really meant. I apologize if some are looking for arguments that aren't there. Sometimes, that's just how things are. You can take my post as you may, obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And I did take responsiblity for my post, hence the apology of not editing.

I reread my first entry, and my premises have supported my idea. But, enough of that, I can keep rubbing the same stone but people will believe what they want. Hence, there's no reason to defend my post, I have elaborated it on my last. I said my piece.

If you made a mistake in your post which was opposite to your position or opinion but people will take it up front and will react. As you explained already then it is no longer an issue. Most of us will understand your mistake and surely you stirred a hornets' nest here.

We are responsible for the post made we made . Peace...

Rep

i don't know if this has been said already, but i don't think not letting "2nd coursers" to study nursing is the solution to the brain drain. 1) i think the philippines should uphold it's view of nurses, and not treat them as the dr's slave or "handmaid". one of the things that attract filipinos here is that they're treated as professionals and not just helpers who fluff the pillow or hand over the bed pan. if the nursing image is better, i think filipino nurses would have 2nd thoughts of leaving (of course, money does change everything. ) 2) the hiring process should be very arduous and competitive. select only those who excel and are really serious of becoming a nurse, and make sure the 2nd coursers do not switching to their "desired" professions once they are here. we should remember that pinoy/pinays who come here straight from the phil. represent the whole country. i would not want a slacker to represent my country because whether we like it or not, it does ruin the image. and right now, the fil. nurses' image is great.

(i've edited my entry in case anyone else would like to respond. i'm open.)

i respect your opinion but i really feel bad reading your thread. you are talking as if your are not a filipino. instead of uniting us & having some complimentary or constructive comments especially in this forum, you instead trying to devide us. try to examine our country, even our politicians are kept on bickerings with each other. our country is becoming poorer and poorer because of politics. we have now a high rocketing foreign debts. one of the main purpose why we go abroad is to seek for a greener pastures. filipinos are known of having big families. if we just concentrate here " paano naman tayo aangat" our salary can not even sustain to one big family? do you think this is a good reflection as filipinos in general? lumalabas na naman kasi ang pagka "crab mentality" natin. anyway, as much as possible, we will just keep on maintaining our environment free from pollution, pollution from bad commentaries. magkaisa tayo, pinoy!

by the way, please pray for us instead, because i am one of your kababayans who also applied & waiting now for the approval of our papers. thanks & may god bless us all.

i didn't think iseeu_rn's post as malicious. i thought it was simply biased and needed some clarification. nothing wrong with that.

on the issue of second coursers, the post was already edited (failed to say NOT or DON'T)...lesson learned: post carefully.

on giving pinoy nurses in the phils better treatment as a way to keep them from exiting the country, i thought it was NOT ENOUGH, not as basic as economic concerns.

i also thought she equated second coursers with indecisiveness that may be a cause for them shifting to another career when they get to the states. NOT VERY REAL. (pinoys shift to nursing not the other way around. and how many cases have you known of pinoys moving from initially some other degree to nursing then to another career in the states? none.). she goes on to say that tough hiring is needed to screen out these people who are indecisive about nursing so they don't tarnish the prevailing good image of nurses abroad. my reaction--- i agree with the motive but that doesn't really do anything with brain drain. besides, brain drain is not the TRUE problem.

posts represent opinions and we know that opinions can't always be gospel truth. let's post more with our heads squarely on our shoulders than with our hearts on our sleeves.

I respect your opinion but I really feel bad reading your thread. You are talking as if your are not a Filipino. Instead of uniting us & having some complimentary or constructive comments especially in this forum, you instead trying to devide us. Try to examine our country, even our politicians are kept on bickerings with each other. Our country is becoming poorer and poorer because of politics. We have now a high rocketing foreign debts. One of the main purpose why we go abroad is to seek for a greener pastures. Filipinos are known of having big families. If we just concentrate here " paano naman tayo aangat" Our salary can not even sustain to one big family? Do you think this is a good reflection as Filipinos in general? Lumalabas na naman kasi ang pagka "crab mentality" natin. Anyway, as much as possible, we will just keep on maintaining our environment free from pollution, pollution from bad commentaries. Magkaisa tayo, Pinoy!

By the way, please pray for us instead, because I am one of your kababayans who also applied & waiting now for the approval of our papers. Thanks & May God bless us all.

I'm sorry you feel bad, but I ask you to keep an open mind about my post before you start to "feel" anything. Please read my 2nd/ longer post. If you do understand it-- I thank you.

I'd like to say that I do not want to prevent anyone to work here as a nurse, may they be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th coursers. Like you, my mom came here as a nurse 25 years ago to seek "greener" pastures. But if you haven't already, before you react to this reply read my second post because I've said what I wanted to say on that piece. If you take away anything from it, I hope it's that I am not preventing you or anyone else to come to the US and be a nurse and earn money to send to your family. I had merely suggested solutions that the government may take para hindi umalis ang mga nurses, imbes na pigilan nila ang mga 2nd coursers na umalis. Ang mga solution ay ang mga sumusunod... 1) improve nursing status in PInas so nurses dont have to leave and 2) have a strict hiring/screening process so that the candidates can prove that they can work here in the US as a nurse. That was my opinion in a nut shell...

i didn't think iseeu_rn's post as malicious. i thought it was simply biased and needed some clarification. nothing wrong with that.

on the issue of second coursers, the post was already edited (failed to say NOT or DON'T)...lesson learned: post carefully.

on giving pinoy nurses in the phils better treatment as a way to keep them from exiting the country, i thought it was NOT ENOUGH, not as basic as economic concerns.

i also thought she equated second coursers with indecisiveness that may be a cause for them shifting to another career when they get to the states. NOT VERY REAL. (pinoys shift to nursing not the other way around. and how many cases have you known of pinoys moving from initially some other degree to nursing then to another career in the states? none.). she goes on to say that tough hiring is needed to screen out these people who are indecisive about nursing so they don't tarnish the prevailing good image of nurses abroad. my reaction--- i agree with the motive but that doesn't really do anything with brain drain. besides, brain drain is not the TRUE problem.

posts represent opinions and we know that opinions can't always be gospel truth. let's post more with our heads squarely on our shoulders than with our hearts on our sleeves.

It seems like you are the only one who got the jist of what I had written (or maybe you're the only one reading my entire post ) and the real purpose of discussion boards. Thanks for being forgiving of my previous error. Thank you for keeping an open mind and not being judgemental. Thanks for not pushing me down even further, even after I had stumbled. Because of what happened, I edit my posts, like 100 times before I hit ENTER...hehehe

Much appreciated.

i take pride in being pinoy bec. we are such a passionate lot behind that "modest" exterior, di ba?? but sometimes, our passions lead us to perceive things from a different light. if we keep an open mind and reorient our thinking to that of those we relate with, we understand more (and react negatively less).

for everyone else who reacted swiftly and remained open to exchanges, that was a leap from our being pinoy, too. kasi, isip din sa atin ng iba, mahilig tayo magtiis at di sinasabi ang nararamdaman (pa-martyr, sabi ng tatay ko--false modesty). at least now, we're becoming bolder about speaking our minds. kung wala siguro nag express ng disagreement or even offense, walang chance na na-reveal further ang meaning ng post at "na-reveal si poster". it may not be the most pleasant thing in the world but it's part of the process we know as learning.

having said that, choosing words to communicate what we really mean could also be tricky business...lalo pa di mo nakikita facial expression, gestures, etc. we need to be careful if i have to say it again.

btw, i'm still wondering about the official news on BON's alleged stopping of second coursers. anong dyaryo ba yon?

About the HIRING and SCREENING process: A Clarification.

The hiring and screening process are 2 diff. things but intertwined.

Foreign RNs wanting to work in the US undergo a very stringent SCREENING process. It includes having to pass 2-3 qualifying exams, namely: LOCAL BOARD EXAM, NCLEX and/or the CGFNS exam plus an ENGLISH competency exam, hence, the VISASCREEN certification required by US LAW as a strong presumption that an applicant is COMPETENT and can practice SAFE nursing and be able to communicate effectively in the US.

In addition, an applicant has to prove that she is morally upright and a law abiding citizen, hence, the req't for a Police/NBI clearance.

As far as I'm concern, foreign RNs setting put on US soil are the best of the best a foreign country can give.

HIRING has nothing to do with the Phil. BON and Phil. Gov't. Its up to the foreign hospitals/employers and they base it on the VisaScreen Certification and the diff. licensure/qualifying exams w/c I may say are MOre THAN ENOUGH evidence of competency. Imagine, being licensed on 2 diff. countries as an RN and most 2nd coursers have other Medical related licenses.

Maintaing that COMPETENCY is likewise the job of all BON in ANY COunTRY.

You can get suspended, your license cancelled, etc..

Its a nice system.

The whole process may take anywhere bet. 1-3 years. Its HARDWORK.

I don't know how much more ardous a SCREENING process can be. This is as good as it gets.

i take pride in being pinoy bec. we are such a passionate lot behind that "modest" exterior, di ba?? but sometimes, our passions lead us to perceive things from a different light. if we keep an open mind and reorient our thinking to that of those we relate with, we understand more (and react negatively less).

for everyone else who reacted swiftly and remained open to exchanges, that was a leap from our being pinoy, too. kasi, isip din sa atin ng iba, mahilig tayo magtiis at di sinasabi ang nararamdaman (pa-martyr, sabi ng tatay ko--false modesty). at least now, we're becoming bolder about speaking our minds. kung wala siguro nag express ng disagreement or even offense, walang chance na na-reveal further ang meaning ng post at "na-reveal si poster". it may not be the most pleasant thing in the world but it's part of the process we know as learning.

having said that, choosing words to communicate what we really mean could also be tricky business...lalo pa di mo nakikita facial expression, gestures, etc. we need to be careful if i have to say it again.

btw, i'm still wondering about the official news on BON's alleged stopping of second coursers. anong dyaryo ba yon?

Good post. No idea but I don't think it will prosper. :)