PhD student who is also a New Grad! So Confused!

[magnoliablossoms]

Hello All,

I am recently finishing up a Entry Level Masters Program and graduating in a few weeks and will be taking the NCLEX really soon. I was very excited to get out there and work, however I received the opportunity to attend a PhD Nursing program, starting this summer, which I accepted because I really enjoy nursing research.

However, I still have a lot of loans from my ELM program plus I want to get my experience as a new nurse. The PhD program discourages anybody working because of the heavy workload so I wanted to work in a nursing specialty that wouldn't be so stressful and difficult to handle while I am in school for the next four years. I do love Psych and wanted to work in a Psych facility part time, but many people, including current nurses, have discouraged me from this field, saying I won't get my necessary acute care experience and it's a lot more stressful than what it looks. I have a current offer for a rehab position as an RN in a hospital, but I am hesitant because I will be stressed and I am unsure it is the best choice. I am also discouraged to get a job as a case manager because some nurses say I don't have enough experience.

I am confused at this point and spend several hours on this website, reading posts and debating what I should do. I am sorry for this long post but I would love to have any one's input on what I should do or if I should even attempt to work. Thank you for reading and hope to hear any advice soon.

Yay for research!!!

[magnoliablossoms]

I don't think people should teach nursing who have never practiced as a nurse. I feel the same about researchers. You don't have to get years of experience, but you do need some in order to know the reality of the profession you want to lead. It's that simple.

Find a way to work at least part time while you go to school ... or you risk never knowing what nursing is really like, what it FEELS like to actually be responsible for patients, etc. Without that "practice knowledge," your "theoretical knowledge" will lack grounding in reality. And when nurses find out that you have never practiced as a nurse, you will have little credibility with them.

llg, PhD, RN-BC

But then what about researchers in other fields, such as chemistry? They have little experience in their field before they start research. Usually in other disciplines of biological sciences and disparities research, the researchers have no foundational experience before they start researching, which the nursing discipline is trying to adapt to the same method.

I will try to work part-time as a nurse, but I feel that I will not have a lot of interaction with other nurses as I grow in the research field because I will be focused on mainly research and teaching and finding grants to highlight and conduct studies about certain nursing issues or patient issues, rather than interacting with patients. But I will definitely try to get a part time job as a psych nurse because I do love psych.

[magnoliablossoms]

The point of research is to gather data to test theories. Research findings are disseminated into practice and policy. The best researchers are those who develop theories and data collection methods based on and informed by their knowledge of the practice their research will impact. Get some practice under your belt to create a credible foundation as a researcher.

Plus, most nurses are bitter, cynical and clever. We will detect your inexperienced, ivory tower dreck a mile away. When I read published research I can SMELL the academic hack who never wiped a butt or flushed a line like rotten fish. Trust me on this one. Go work.

I feel that in 20 years the nursing discipline will be different. For nursing research, you do not test theories. Instead you become the principal investigator (PI) over your research and follow the nursing interest that ignites you the most. But I still believe that you do not experience to become an effective researcher. I did talk it over with a lot of faculty from renowned institutions and they say nursing experience is not needed in the research career as before because its completely different.

I will work but most nurses accept me and have supported this decision. Plus no matter what direction, I think there will always be some nurses that do not like me lol. That's what they warned me of already. Plus I was a CNA for years, so I have had to do plenty of butt wiping lol. But I will work part time, especially because I do need income.

[pinkiepieRN]

I don't think anyone has actually responded to your original question, but I re-read your original post. Go ahead and take the rehab job offer. Psych nursing is a great field too, and my major passion. That is awesome that you have the funding for the PhD program, so please take it and run with it. It sounds like you're prepared and have some research experience, which is good. I think that's an interesting concept of going straight into research from undergrad because it is the expected path in other fields of science.

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

Okey dokey - one more time.

ELM graduates are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to hiring. They are just as un-qualified as all other RN new grads, but have much higher expectations. Hiring managers actively avoid new grads that feel that they are "entitled" to special treatment. ELM does not have any confer any additional value in terms of clinical ability or other value for an entry level job. In my part of the country, new grad hiring preference is: 1) generic BSN, 2) ADN, 3) ABSN, 4) ELM.... So, considering the glut of BSN new grads, the chances of getting an acute care job are very slim for ELMS.

Having done the educational 'thing' myself, I can't even imagine pursuing a PhD in nursing without any clinical experience. A likely outcome would be becoming unemployable with huge student loans.

[notaslurse]

What is ELM?

[notaslurse]

oh entry level masters?

[silent_rhapsody]

Just wondering if you don't mind sharing, where is your program and how did you manage to score free tuition?

[magnoliablossoms]

I don't think anyone has actually responded to your original question, but I re-read your original post. Go ahead and take the rehab job offer. Psych nursing is a great field too, and my major passion. That is awesome that you have the funding for the PhD program, so please take it and run with it. It sounds like you're prepared and have some research experience, which is good. I think that's an interesting concept of going straight into research from undergrad because it is the expected path in other fields of science.

Thank you. I really appreciate your comment and think that you rock for having psych nursing as your passion! I really love everything you said. Thank you again for the positive sunshine!

[BCRNA]

You should pick whichever job you enjoy. If your going to be a career researcher then your research interests will determine if you need clinical experience. If you are a researcher then publication, grants, and research will determine your employability, not clinical experience. I work 24 hours a week and do part time education in a Phd program. You will only need clinical experience if you want to do clinical research. Practicing nurses will not accept a non-clinician telling them how to practice. Much research in nursing does not require clinical experience. Psychosocial adjustment is not specific to clinical practice ( just one example). Congratulations on getting into a funded program. Regardless of what area of nursing you work in, I doubt any particular area will take any more time outside of work hours. The stress should be taken into account. Go with what makes you happiest, only you will know if high acuity patients will stress you out.

[BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN]

It is commons for people to come to allnurses to ask for advice, in hopes that the advice is exactly what they want to hear. When you post in a forum that is viewed by many graduate and doctoral prepared nurses who have struggled to achieve their goals at various levels of experience. I am beginning my PhD in the fall, and I personally feel like I don't have enough recent clinical experience to draw upon (and I have been a nurse for 19 years). I'm trying not to get into a panic about what I'm going to research, and I've seen and experienced a good amount of stuff.

as far as you possibly teaching in the future, I want to tell you (in the kindest way possible), do not be surprised if a college or university does not hire you. You have NO clinical experience. It doesn't matter that you have a masters and will have a PhD. My colleagues who are in the search committee tell me that this is happening so much more lately (applicants who have the degree, but literally no experience). Schools need nurses with experience to teach. Students can smell inexperienced nurses.

I have been teaching for 8 years, and had 10 years of experience before I started, and there are times where I do not feel like I have as much as I want to give my students. An educator will never know everything, but they have to know something. And you can't get all of what you need in graduate school. This goes for both theory and clinical you need stories, anecdotes, tricks, etc to share with students.

It's great that you want to pursue the degree, but you need to think about the practical application of it. What exactly will you do with it, and do you have enough experience to draw from in order to get the degree?

[magnoliablossoms]

Hello BCRNA..i totallly agree with all of the advice you have given...since writing this entry post I have learned so much about my research path and know that I will be a lifelong researcher and I realize that I do not require that much clinical experience. But thank you for every single word you expressed because I really think that this sums it up for me! I know that I will be more in community research and this makes me happiest! Thank you again!

[magnoliablossoms]

@PROFRN4 Congrats for starting your PhD in the fall! I think thats its really good that you have years of experience and you should probably feel more confident because you have those years of experience.

Yet, I did want to remark that for the field I am going into is specifically for research and many of these universities and institutions would hire me without clinical experience, because I have had the research experience after I finish my PhD. I had to have the same conversation with my advisor, who instructed me that I want to go to an institution that will allow me to do less teaching and more researching and I think that's the issue. I know that I will most likely never get a job as Med-Surg faculty position but I do have high hopes of teaching nursing research or nursing theory at these schools. Also, they are encouraging students like myself to come into nursing research because we bring a different perspective from our background and can contribute to the nursing field, depending on if we came from an engineering field or even art.

Also, almost every discipline lets their students continue to highest level without experience yet, such as sociology or public health, except nursing. From reading different journals, they are trying to make that move and encourage students who may not have all that experience but have the passion for research to continue. Now with a DNP, I understand, because you need clinical practice. But if you are research in informatics or in a familiar community that has health issues, a nurse with no experience can contribute so much nursing knowledge to the field.

I do agree that for some fields of teaching some field of nursing research, you should have experience, such as research on patients' reactions to the insertion of central line catheter. But for researching on diverse communities and broadening the nursing field, I believe that your background and experience with your population can provide so much more to the nursing field than having experience. Therefore, it differs with each PhD student and what their life goals are and how they want to contribute to overall nursing discipline.

It is commons for people to come to allnurses to ask for advice, in hopes that the advice is exactly what they want to hear. When you post in a forum that is viewed by many graduate and doctoral prepared nurses who have struggled to achieve their goals at various levels of experience. I am beginning my PhD in the fall, and I personally feel like I don't have enough recent clinical experience to draw upon (and I have been a nurse for 19 years). I'm trying not to get into a panic about what I'm going to research, and I've seen and experienced a good amount of stuff.

as far as you possibly teaching in the future, I want to tell you (in the kindest way possible), do not be surprised if a college or university does not hire you. You have NO clinical experience. It doesn't matter that you have a masters and will have a PhD. My colleagues who are in the search committee tell me that this is happening so much more lately (applicants who have the degree, but literally no experience). Schools need nurses with experience to teach. Students can smell inexperienced nurses.

I have been teaching for 8 years, and had 10 years of experience before I started, and there are times where I do not feel like I have as much as I want to give my students. An educator will never know everything, but they have to know something. And you can't get all of what you need in graduate school. This goes for both theory and clinical you need stories, anecdotes, tricks, etc to share with students.

It's great that you want to pursue the degree, but you need to think about the practical application of it. What exactly will you do with it, and do you have enough experience to draw from in order to get the degree?