Patients who are too lazy to open their own splenda packets

squeakykitty · May 8, 2008

This thread is making me so, so sad.
The person who was a nurse during the '50's....conditions were bad then and nobody complained. No one would dare.
The nurses of the 21st century....conditions are bad and now, much of the time, still nobody complains. Why not? Corporate management intimidation. Now, hospitals are a competitive business and the customer is always right. Different reasons...same result.
Nursing is the way it is because we have allowed it to be that way. IMO, that is nothing to self-righteously chirp about so proudly. I think it stinks for both the nursing profession, and the patients.
I have done this job since 1974 and I am still doing it.
By behaving like idiots, we have created the nursing shortage. Maybe if we lived in a society where personal responsibility was valued more than it is, people would take better care of themselves, care more about others, recognize real and necessary boundaries, and not treat those who try to help them like garbage.
Under no circumstances should a nurse ever take physical or verbal abuse from anyone. All working people are, by law, entitled to the proper breaks, and to reasonably clean and ergonomic working conditions. I don't care if they're nurses or not...it is both romantic and naive to believe and hold on to the old idea of sacrificing your life and your health because you think you are giving "service".
In a moral society, which we do not have, each person is responsible for his own life and health. Doctors and nurses can help, but they are not ultimately responsible. WE ALONE as individuals determine the outcome of our treatment. Health care professionals are just there to help.
There is nothing more destructive than that "Look how tough I am and how much I have done" attitude. It has been like a cancer in both the nursing and the medical profession for far too long. It's insane and violent in a subtly and sneaky and manipulative way. It still exists, even in corporate medicine. It is useless, egoic, immature behavior and it needs to stop.
I will celebrate its death, which I hope comes soon.

:yeah: :yeahthat::clphnds:

I couldn't have said this better myself. There is a nursing shortage, so I don't know why nurses can't work together for change, instead of having to put up with abuse.

squeakykitty · May 8, 2008

I think sick people still have a responsibility to be decent, considerate members of the human race. Illness isn't a license to by a demanding tyrant. Ill people, also, have a social responsiblity to the rest of humanity. To say otherwise is to dehumanize them, in my opinion.
Adult patients should be mature enough to understand that the world does not revolve around them, and that nurses are very busy caring for more than one patient, some of which might have critical needs.
To abuse the calllight system with trivial requests is self-centered and infantile.

I couldn't agree with this more. There is no excuse for people to act like the northbound end of a southbound mule. Besides, they probably act like one even when they are not sick.

neonatal3 · May 9, 2008

I enjoyed your comments, QueenJean,about ways to decrease unreasonable patient requests of nurses such as patient education toward goal of self care. As you say, some patients and families may not be clear on what is safe for them to do themselves?

Unfortunately, even after patient education about self care, some patients continue to constantly ask nurses to do things they could do for themselves. I agree with jlsRN that "adult patients should be mature enough to understand that the world does not revolve totally around them and that nurses are busy caring for more than one patient". Tough situation!

To help improve working conditions for nurses,maybe medical facilities need to do more patient education with "reality checks"? Maybe medical staff need to teach patients what the reality of medical priorities of their care by nurses is such as giving medications and treatments on time? Perhaps medical staff also need to educate patients about what the reality of personal care priorites they can do themselves is in order for them to remain as independent as possible?

queenjean · May 9, 2008

Oh, you are totally right, there is some sort of culture of entitlement that has developed in our society. I find myself feeding into at different times and have been trying to actively avoid that. Not being frustrated with the slow, silly college student who is taking forever at the ATM because she's on the phone. Being understanding when the local food coop is out-again-of the one item that I specifically came there to purchase. That sort of thing.

Sometimes there is nothing you can do to make someone realize that the world doesn't revolve around them. More specifically, that YOUR world doesn't revolve around them. It frustrates and angers me, those people doing their dance of anger and entitlement on my time; usually I end up just pssing them off and letting them stew; what else can you do? It's certainly not for want of trying. In my busy 12 hour shift, I'm not going to change the attitude of every completely egocentric ahole.

That's when it's nice to have vent threads, so I can say something like: did you SERIOUSLY just walk up to the desk to inform me that you are suing me for abuse because I won't let you eat because you are NPO with a diagnosis of dehydration secondary to pancreatitis? Well, you just go right ahead with your little lawsuit AND your noncompliance--eat that cheeseburger and fries your girlfriend just brought you. But guess what, your pain meds and antiemetic are only ordered every 4 hours, and the doc left a specific order that we were NOT to call him for any additional orders if you experienced nausea and pain due to your noncompliance. See, the last few (oh, maybe 10) times you were here you pulled his, and DrY is sick of it; so are we. Maybe you'll just FINALLY leave AMA and drive your puking self to another hospital. Please, be my guest. When your name was called up for admission, we drew straws; and when I lost, I cussed like a sailor at the unluck of it all and then pulled the AMA paperwork to have ready for you, all before you even got to the floor.

quezen · May 9, 2008

I love it QueenJean, comments like that give people like me the will to go on!

You know the old VA nurses used to tell me that they used to call on patient PA,"everyone (who could walk) with nine O'clock meds report to the desk and line up". I bet people got well and went home under those 'house rules' also. :twocents:

BlueRidgeHomeRN · May 9, 2008

i love it queenjean, comments like that give people like me the will to go on!
you know the old va nurses used to tell me that they used to call on patient pa,"everyone (who could walk) with nine o'clock meds report to the desk and line up". i bet people got well and went home under those 'house rules' also.

because back then they were "patients" who were in a hospital because they were sick and needed to get better.. :nurse:

now they are "customers" who do not see the difference between their "need" for a low-fat decaf mochachino and their roomate's "need" for pressors and suctioning!!:smilecoffeeilovecof

Altra, BSN, RN · May 9, 2008

That's when it's nice to have vent threads, so I can say something like: did you SERIOUSLY just walk up to the desk to inform me that you are suing me for abuse because I won't let you eat because you are NPO with a diagnosis of dehydration secondary to pancreatitis? Well, you just go right ahead with your little lawsuit AND your noncompliance--eat that cheeseburger and fries your girlfriend just brought you. But guess what, your pain meds and antiemetic are only ordered every 4 hours, and the doc left a specific order that we were NOT to call him for any additional orders if you experienced nausea and pain due to your noncompliance. See, the last few (oh, maybe 10) times you were here you pulled his, and DrY is sick of it; so are we. Maybe you'll just FINALLY leave AMA and drive your puking self to another hospital. Please, be my guest. When your name was called up for admission, we drew straws; and when I lost, I cussed like a sailor at the unluck of it all and then pulled the AMA paperwork to have ready for you, all before you even got to the floor.

That was great - thanks! :yeah: :smokin:

neonatal3 · May 9, 2008

queenjean "you rock" with your real world comments about some patients who insist on being noncompliant! I had a patient who was NPO after abdominal intestine surgery and who was "reading me the riot act" about his "right" to have food right away! No amount of kind patient education about the dangers of eating too soon after this surgery would convince this patient that the purpose for the NPO order was about safety for his condition. This patient said to me "if you do not give me food right now, I am checking out of this hospital this morning!"

I called this patient's surgeon to inform him of the situation. This great realist doc came right over to the hospital, went with me to the patient's room, kindly explained again the potential risk if the patient ate, and then bluntly said something like: "you can follow my order not to eat to protect your health, or I can discharge you right now". Then this know it all patient actually shouted at this doc and me and said something like "ok, send me home now because I am going to eat no matter what!"--patient was discharged and ended right back in the hospital emergency room and to our floor the next day with major abdominal complications! Go figure?

KyPinkRN · May 12, 2008

because back then they were "patients" who were in a hospital because they were sick and needed to get better..
now they are "customers" who do not see the difference between their "need" for a low-fat decaf mochachino and their roomate's "need" for pressors and suctioning!!:smilecoffeeilovecof

bravo! you hit the nail right on the head! :yeah: now, what are we going to do about it? who knows? :crying2:

wooh, BSN, RN · May 13, 2008

Of course, I make sure they know where it is. Sometimes I think family and pts need to know that they *can* do those things--I've had family call to ask for the nurse to give mom a sip of water--but I think honestly they think that they might get in trouble, because they aren't sure if mom is supposed to be having water, or maybe we are measuring it and they don't understand that we do that at the end of the shift, etc.
Last week I had a family member call me to raise the head of the bed, but she honestly didn't know if she was allowed to do that.
I find the "I'm going to let you do that." typically works.

I do something similar. "Oh, let me show you how to do that," in a friendly non-confrontational way. If they simply don't know, they know now. If they're being manipulative and/or demanding, then they get the point that I'm not going to do it for them. A lot of times people want to do for themselves, they just don't know they can. I show them the family room, where they can get ice water, "So you don't have to wait on us, I know that can be annoying!"

I think working in peds has helped me a lot, I've grown more forgiving of demanding family members, more understanding of the stress they're under. But I'm still not going to be walked on. I think the big difference for me is I've learned over the last couple years how to demand respect without having to "demand" it. If I assume they're just stressed (even if I suspect they're just rude and manipulative), and treat them with understanding but not being walked over, then I make the truly stressed happy, but the manipulative ones, well, they can quit being so manipulative without having to feel like they've been "shown up," which isn't going to make the behavior stop, just usually get worse. Everybody wins.

wooh, BSN, RN · May 13, 2008

The most annoying things to me is the 50-60 year old man who has perfect control over his arms and hands. He can cut up his own food, eat and drink from a cup no problem. But his wants his female nurse to hold his urinal for him while he pees. That just reeks of some disgusting misogynist sexual fantasy and I will always refuse to play along.
If you are old and weak and have Parkinson's tremor, I will discreetly help you with your bodily functions that's different. But I refuse to assist any perverted fantasies creepos. It still amazes me how many there are that try to insist on this.

It's amazing how quick the calls to help with the urinal end when you start sending in one of the male nurses or techs EVERY time they call for help.:)

jmgrn65, RN · May 14, 2008

It is a "given" that sick people, while not exonerated of their extremely negative behavior, are nevertheless expressing their individual reality. The nurses contributing to this "vent" thread, hopefully vent here instead of acting out their negative feelings toward patients. It is useful to discharge feelings in this manner. However, I am unsure of what constitutes a "vent" thread, rather than one contributing to other nurses' information.
It would be good when feeling angry about the patients we care for, to "journal" them. Then, a few days later, when the anger has diminished, read what we've written and see if those feelings have changed. If they have not, then venting them has not been useful, in that it hasn't changed the negativity expressed, for that person. There are many ways to deal with anger. Reading the "Dance of Anger" may be helpful.
I was horrified to hear from my brother-in-law, George about the treatment received one evening by the young man sharing his semi-private room, whose call button wasn't answered for over an hour, other than someone yelling through the intercom to say it wasn't time fror his pain medication. George telephoned the hospital and asked for the nursing supervisor. Another hour passed, without any nursing intervention for the roomate. Finally the unit nurse showed up with the pain medication, as the newly post-op patient in need of it was writhing and crying; and said that it hadn't been given sooner, as the young man hadn't said "please" and "thank you" when it was given before!
George again called the hospital requesting that administration call him (he is known in our family for his strong reaction to wrongdoings. A half hour later, the physician who operated on George to replace his knee, came into the room with a great flourish, followed by the unit nurse and the supervisor. He told George in no uncertain terms, that he would not tolerate any disturbance to "his" nurses. Then his roomate, finally relieved of his pain was taken to another room and George never saw him again.
The family discussed with their daughter-in-law, a pain management physician, what should be done. She said "nothing", as any more attention to the nurses' behavior would result in more patients suffering. When I heard about this, I practically leapt over the 3000 miles distance to the site of such a travesty, vowing to have that doctor's license revoked, the nurses disciplined, etc. Then I realized that I had no right to act upon a situation in which I personally was not involved. That was a hard lesson, and it seems that I still have more to learn about butting out of scenes in which I have no part. Sorry, colleagues.

I just wonder do you still work the bedside?

And do you think it is possible george didn't know the whole story.

you can't just get on the phone and demand the hospital administrator, they are not going to come on the floor and talk to a patient thats what patient relations is for.

Yes sometimes doctors and nurses act like that, but we are all human, well maybe not all.