20% Pass Rate

moonchildLPN82 · Apr 9, 2009

That has has happened to me. At my school it's 3rd semester that is the killer. I personally dropped this semester because of my grades and am planning on going down to the PN program in hopes that it will fill in some gaps for me. Good luck to you though.

tfleuter, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2009

the passing rate at my school was pretty bad last semester (the semester i graduated). from the beginning we had like 150 students. by the end we had 30 graduate

This is insane! Why aren't BON's looking into these schools? It shouldn't be enough that their NCLEX pass rates are above 85%, graduation rates should be up there as well. Maybe not 85%, but at least 70%. I think these types of programs need re-evalutated. It's just plain wrong that they will take your money right up until the end of the program and then decide "Ooops! Guess you're not good enough to be here. Thanks for the tuition!" :nono:

missjennmb · Apr 9, 2009

A 20% says little about the students but tons about the course and the instructors.

I disagree. There's no way that you can know what this says without being there to know more of the facts. In my current community, the school system is very poor, and MANY of those who are taking college classes were ill prepared for college. The bar is set so low in grade schools here that its difficult for students to start college expecting themselves to do better. I've taken more than one class here where I felt like I was the only one in the class doing my homework and not cheating on tests. Even in my nursing program, there are thoughts that some may have cheated.

If everyone does their VERY best, is VERY focused, and does it "right" and still fails out then yes, its the teachers. But the OP just didnt have enough information (logically since she doesnt sit in class with those complaining) to know what kind of students they truly are.

Teachers should not have to give freebies to make sure a certain percentage of their classes pass. Be fair, but be tough. This is my life you are putting into your student's hands, and lets face it, not everyone is equipped to deal with that intellectually, dedication-wise, ect.

Propranolol · Apr 9, 2009

This is insane! Why aren't BON's looking into these schools? It shouldn't be enough that their NCLEX pass rates are above 85%, graduation rates should be up there as well. Maybe not 85%, but at least 70%. I think these types of programs need re-evalutated. It's just plain wrong that they will take your money right up until the end of the program and then decide "Ooops! Guess you're not good enough to be here. Thanks for the tuition!"

yeah. i think the main problem is that their is no admissions test. you need a 2.75 gpa and C+ in your other courses to count for the program. most people think it will be easy to get through, only to find out its hard and they give up or dont have it in them to continue. its really sad. seen a lot of people leave. close friends i became with during the program. hey, at least the nclex passing rate is 100%!! :icon_roll

tfleuter, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2009

yeah. i think the main problem is that their is no admissions test. you need a 2.75 gpa and C+ in your other courses to count for the program. most people think it will be easy to get through, only to find out its hard and they give up or dont have it in them to continue. its really sad. seen a lot of people leave. close friends i became with during the program. hey, at least the nclex passing rate is 100%!! :icon_roll

Now if some governing body would look into this, it's an easy fix for both the school and the students. Up the gpa requirement to 3.0. Truth is, if you can't possibly make at least a B average in your pre-reqs (or are not motivated enough to work for it) then there's a good chance you won't make it through school. Why waste spots, extend waitlists and clog up the school with students who are just not going to make it through?

A more difficult fix would be schools who (seem to) have impossible requirements towards the end of the program b/c they don't want to graduates students who *might* not pass the NCLEX the first time?

missjennmb · Apr 9, 2009

I dunno, my GPA was either a 4.0 if I was interested or a 2.0 if I wasn't. But, I'm very smart.

I definitely think a tough entrance test makes all the difference. If a student cannot pass say a PAX test (NLN Pre-admission Exam) with flying colors they either don't have a basic understanding of math, english and science, or they don't test well. Our class has a 50% pass rate for the class and requires an 80% or better on the PAX. Everyone who excelled beyond that is doing fine in nursing school. I had a 99%, another had an 89%, 91%, ect.

Our school gives the test SIX times before it finds enough people to fill the seats, and you have to wait 3 months between attempts.

Blove86 · Apr 9, 2009

I do not necessarily agree with basing a students acceptance of a test based on an exam. I am an intelligent person, but Im not a good test taker at all. Yet, I am doing pretty well in nursing school so far. Same concept of standardized testing. It does not measure a person intelligence or aptitude, just something I believe weeds people out for other purposes....

missjennmb · Apr 9, 2009

but if you are not a good test taker, that decreases your shot at getting past the NCLEX no? And isnt that the main purpose of nursing school? (all bs aside, our teachers and administrators made it very clear that if there was any doubt we'd pass the nclex, they would find a way to fail us)

I dont understand how a test doesnt measure intelligence about a subject when it asks if you know something or if you dont? Obviously it doesnt measure how well you can pop in a cath or your bedside manner, but it does show you have knowledge of a subject. Even the argument of "not a good test taker but a good student" doesnt make up for the fact that at the end of the program, its all for naught if you cant take that NCLEX and pass it.

You mention weeding out for "other purposes"... like what? what nefarious purpose could there be for making sure people are good at taking tests before putting them through a rigorous program full of tests building up to one big huge test?

You said you are not a good test taker, but if your program is ANYTHING near as mine is, those skills are not just good, they are mandatory. I would say that 0.5% of our grade is based on non-test material at most, and last semester there were none of those even, so if you couldnt test well you simply could not be here.

tfleuter, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2009

My school bases acceptance upon pre-req GPA and the TEAS. Both of these scores are fairly competitive and definately weeds out mediocre students and poor test takers. Not that these students won't be good nurses someday, but it's seems like the best way to make use of the school's spots and resources.

I just spoke with someone in the program today and she said that once the school accepts someone into the program, the do their best to help them stay until the end. There are 45 accepted each semester; this gal was in her 3rd and only 2 of the students have left. One failed a class, the other sort of had a mini nervous breakdown and left voluntairly. Both have the option of coming back next semester. This school's NCLEX rates have been in the high 80's/low 90's. I can deal with that.

Seems to be a system that makes sense to me.

MoLee228 · Apr 10, 2009

I understand your fear, and I would be nervous if I were you, too. On the other hand, I am so sick of people whining about the teachers (not you, the class ahead of you). Every time a student in my class gets a question wrong, they blame it on the professor's teaching. Whether they emphasize something in lecture or not, YOU as the student are responsible for the material. This is not just for the tests, but to be a good nurse. So many students in my class are so hung up on their grade that they forget we are learning this so that we can be good, safe nurses. I am really worried about some of my classmate's abilities to practice safe nursing, and I really hope that they do get weeded out of the program if they can't improve their knowledge and skills, or else they are going to be SCARY nurses!

Sorry about the rant, this is directed more at some of my classmates, not you. You will be able to make it through the program no matter how awful the professors are if you really put your mind to it and you want it in your heart. You can do it!

Blove86 · Apr 10, 2009

Well I to clarify, I am not a good test taker, which I explain as in I get nervous, anxious, etc. Thats what I mean by that, but I do have a wealth of knowledge and I do understand most things being taught to me. Other reasons being SOMETIMES students are judged before being given a chance to show their stuff, besides, I see it like this everyone deserve's a chance to be a nurse, if they cant cut it going thru the program, of course it will show. But if they make it and pass then obvious they could make it..........but thats my opinion. I always try to be fair and therefore my outlook and views mimic my stance.

morte, LPN, LVN · Apr 10, 2009

I disagree. There's no way that you can know what this says without being there to know more of the facts. In my current community, the school system is very poor, and MANY of those who are taking college classes were ill prepared for college. The bar is set so low in grade schools here that its difficult for students to start college expecting themselves to do better. I've taken more than one class here where I felt like I was the only one in the class doing my homework and not cheating on tests. Even in my nursing program, there are thoughts that some may have cheated.
If everyone does their VERY best, is VERY focused, and does it "right" and still fails out then yes, its the teachers. But the OP just didnt have enough information (logically since she doesnt sit in class with those complaining) to know what kind of students they truly are.
Teachers should not have to give freebies to make sure a certain percentage of their classes pass. Be fair, but be tough. This is my life you are putting into your student's hands, and lets face it, not everyone is equipped to deal with that intellectually, dedication-wise, ect.

the person you quoted mentioned instructors and COURSE.......and i think he/she is correct......but from the get go......some of those persons shouldnt have been accepted....and/or the course is poorly structured....either way the college is getting the tuition money and NOT putting out the product.