Pandemic News/Awareness.

cactus wren · Apr 2, 2007

Indigo, I`d save my breathe for the more important goal of trying to alert our nursing breathern about the probability of a PanFlu Year.

Some folks won`t believe it can happen until they see the bodies in the streets.

indigo girl · Apr 2, 2007

Indigo, I`d save my breathe for the more important goal of
trying to alert our nursing breathern about the probability of a PanFlu Year.
Some folks won`t believe it can happen until they see the bodies in the streets.

That is OK, Cactus. I know that everyone has a different trigger mechanism for self protection.

I am not responsible for their belief systems.

I have provided the links to the various govt websites. I hope that some will investigate for

themselves. I will continue to provide information in various forms on these threads. If there

are media sources, I will back them up with a blog or forum to preserve the information should

the link break.

If anyone does not want to believe the govt or the WHO or that people are really being infected

and dying, then I can not help you here.

Ayrman · Apr 2, 2007

It takes all kinds to make up this world of ours, and nursing is anything but exempt in that regard. Speaking only for myself I have personally witnessed nurses who are drug addicts - something I find extremely ironic when you consider how much grief the drug seekers cause us in general - who would switch meds or syphon off a bit, or even attempt to snatch dose units wholesale and then claim it must have been the pharm tech or a clerical error. I have seen at least one nurse document detailed assessments on patients they haven't looked at for more than 15 seconds, and then from the doorway only (last I knew there were a couple of Boards of Nursing looking for her, too). And, too, I have seen nurse managers compromise care to severe degrees in order to make their higher ups happy with their work so they can continue to collect bonuses, etc. As I say, it takes all kinds and nursing is anything but immune to being a representation of a cross-section of humanity.

We also have nurses who defy the prevalent medical wisdom and decry almost any treatment modality or pharm regimen that isn't based on naturopathic or homeopathic regimens. They sometime whisper about dark conspiracies, other times proclaim loudly that it must be part of the grand conspiracy of the Elders of Zion (I exaggerate a bit here for poetic license), decrying this or that medication or vaccine as not only useless but intended to cause mass deaths that would not otherwise occur (the Census Bureau must be cooking the books to cover that one up, and they are in league with the big life insurance companies, who are secretly controlled by Dick Cheney, who is controlled by his masters from the farms and hills of Sicily, who.... you get the picture). We are supposed to be critical thinkers, but for too many that means we, as fellow nurses, have to adopt their manner of "critical" thinking. IOW the "I'm right and the rest of you are just too blind/stupid/drinking too much Kool-Aid to see things for the way they really are" school of thought.

SARS was real. Fears of a true pandemic failed to materialize though, as we all know. Infectious diseases are a fickle lot; they wax and wane for reasons we have yet to be able to fathom despite milleniums of human experience.

Avian Flu, however, specifically H5N1, seems to be here to stay. The first cases of infection occurred in 1997. If it had followed the same pattern as SARS we'd not have seen any cases after 1999 or so. But, as we know, that is not the case. Nearly 10 years later it not only remains with us but it is mutating. Other than birds we still do not know where the natural reservoir is for this particular strain.

Conspiracy theories about secret bio-weapons labs nothwithstanding China has historically - and we are speaking of at least 1,000 years here that can be accurately documented - produced most of the flu strains that periodically sweep the world. The world has seen virulent strains of flu emerge from China long before the germ was even identified, much less before bio-warfare agents became something studied and prepared by white-coated scientists. Africa specializes in various hemorrhagic fevers, though they do occur naturally elsewhere. China is the main (but not sole) source of the world's flu strains.

In view of the arguments offered in this thread I dare say that if a person is going to refute every source offered that admits to an avian flu epidemic (I didn't say pandemic, for it is not) as suspicious if not outright unbelievable then there is virtually nothing that can be said that will be accepted in support of these views. I'm sure, however, that whale.to (an anti-vaccination website that touts "scientific" evidence claiming vaccines are universally evil) would be roundly proclaimed as a 110% valid source of irrefutable proof backing whatever claim was being made at the time. :twocents:

Ayrman

sanctuary, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 2, 2007

True, Ayrman. Ya get it or ya don't.

Too bad NIMBY doesn't work for illnesses.

indigo girl · Apr 2, 2007

Draft Guidelines on Ventilator Allocation

The New York State Dept of Public Health is soliciting comments about ventilator

allocation during a pandemic influenza emergency.

DemFromCt is a physician who runs Fluwiki. He has alerted us to this information

to allow for the online community to participate. There will be difficult ethical

decisions to be made though I believe that they are saying that this planning is for a

moderate pandemic event not a category 5 event.

Here is a direct link to this information:

http://www.nyhealth.gov/diseases/communicable/influenza/pandemic/

ventilators/

[quote name=http://www.nyhealth.gov/diseases/communicable/influenza/pandemic/

ventilators/docs/ventilator_guidance.pdf]

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security “views pandemic influenza as both the

most likely and most lethal of all threats facing the United States.”1 Scientists and

policymakers cannot know with certainty whether an influenza pandemic will occur.

However, the better-prepared New York State is, the greater its chances of reducing

morbidity, mortality and economic consequences.

[quote name=http://www.nyhealth.gov/diseases/communicable/influenza/pandemic/

ventilators/faq.htm]

Although New York State continues to purchase and stockpile ventilators, we know

that no matter how many ventilators are available overall, in a severe pandemic

there will be shortages in individual facilities. This is because so many people will

be sick at the same time. The ill will include healthcare workers, so there also will

not be enough staff to provide the extra level of care for all patients who need

ventilators. Undoubtedly, difficult decisions on ventilator allocation will need to be

made. We must recognize this and plan for it.

indigo girl · Apr 2, 2007

This is from an interview with Dr. David Nabarro from the WHO that took place in December of 2005. I have posted this before, but it is even more pertinent now because the number of cases of H5N1 has increased, and the number of countries battling the virus also since this was two years ago.

http://www.gartner.com/research/fellows/fellow_interview_nabarro.jsp

An influenza pandemic among humans through human-to-human transmission is a certainty sometime, and that's simply based on the fact that these things happen. It's a certainty that we get from studying history and recognizing that, over the last 200 years, there have been pandemics at intervals of every 30 to 40 years, on average. And we're about due for one now. So, unless something extraordinary has happened to human immune systems, influenza virus behavior or whatever, another pandemic is definitely going to happen. I just cannot tell you when.
...the pandemic will kill when it comes. But more seriously perhaps, it will do massive economic and social damage, because our systems of trade, finance and governance are interconnected and will not survive the impact of a pandemic on workforces. We need to be able to deal with both the human consequences and the economic, social and governance consequences if we're going to survive it.
And believe me, the pandemic could start tomorrow. By the time the pandemic starts, preparation will be too late. So, you should be doing this now, and that's my message.

The message is about preparation. You can not expect to prepare at the last minute. How do you inform people in a way that urges them to take action to protect themselves? IMO, you have to keep educating, and showing that govt and scientists are taking this seriously. This is not a fear based message. There are many things that you can do to protect yourself and your family. You have to take responsibility for your own safety.

indigo girl · Apr 2, 2007

Operation Panstop 2007 is a drill designed to test whether or not an influenza pandemic can be averted. We do not know if this is possible. It has never been done before.

The commentary is from Avian Flu Diary with a link to the Jakarta Post:

http://afludiary.blogspot.com/2007/04/operation-panstop-2007.html

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailgeneral.asp?fileid=20070402165939&irec=7

Laidback Al · Apr 3, 2007

I don't have 20 years of background in medicine and I am not a nurse or Health Care Worker, but I, and many others like me, represent people who want correct and accurate information on a potential pandemic so we can prepare appropriately.

Me, and those like me, are just trying to understand the issues about pandemics, especially the next one. Yet some of the recent posts in this thread seem to be criticizing the messenger, rather than the message. If there are errors in the pandemic message in this thread, please let us non-medical types know what those errors are.

Perhaps CRNI-ICU20 (or someone else who feels the information is being incorrectly reported here) could respond clearly and authoritatively to my simply questions.

1. Will there be another pandemic?

2. If there will be another pandemic, should we be preparing for it now?

3. Finally, if there will be another pandemic, how will we recognized the start of it?

Thank you in advance.

sanctuary, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 3, 2007

I don't have 20 years of background in medicine and I am not a nurse or Health Care Worker, but I, and many others like me, represent people who want correct and accurate information on a potential pandemic so we can prepare appropriately.
Me, and those like me, are just trying to understand the issues about pandemics, especially the next one. Yet some of the recent posts in this thread seem to be criticizing the messenger, rather than the message. If there are errors in the pandemic message in this thread, please let us non-medical types know what those errors are.
Perhaps CRNI-ICU20 (or someone else who feels the information is being incorrectly reported here) could respond clearly and authoritatively to my simply questions.
1. Will there be another pandemic?
2. If there will be another pandemic, should we be preparing for it now?
3. Finally, if there will be another pandemic, how will we recognized the start of it?
Thank you in advance.

#1: Yes

#2: Yes

#3: Remember the Bell Curve? The statistical form that is created when large numbers of anything (IQ scores, men's heights, women's shoe size, number of people stricken with a disease) will also be formed when the pandemic hits. What we want to do is be prepared before the event, so that we do not have to wait until the second standard deviation to react. Do not wait until it is on the evening news. It will be too late then. Prepare now, and stay ready. Tell your friends, tell your co-workers. And watch the blogs. They can be a great source of information.

sanctuary, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 3, 2007

Draft Guidelines on Ventilator Allocation
The New York State Dept of Public Health is soliciting comments about ventilator allocation during a pandemic influenza emergency.
DemFromCt is a physician who runs Fluwiki. He has alerted us to this information to allow for the online community to participate. There will be difficult ethical decisions to be made though I believe that they are saying that this planning is for a moderate pandemic event not a category 5 event.
Here is a direct link to this information:
http://www.nyhealth.gov/diseases/communicable/influenza/pandemic/ventilators/

I have sent this to my local legislators. I hope that my state is as forward thinking as NY, but if not, perhaps this will move them forward.

indigo girl · Apr 3, 2007

Kuwait still trying to control the spread of H5N1:

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74546&postcount=10

CRNI-ICU20 · Apr 3, 2007

First:

I did not say that the information was being incorrectly reported here...

What I was questioning, and what EVERYONE should question is SOURCE

of information, something many of you have just voiced as well....

I personally don't believe we should base preparatory action for an alledged pandemic on BLOGS! I do believe that some government websites are also not ALWAYS that reliable in their information, because they rely in some instances on unreliable sources....(one only has to look back at our own CIA-Weapons of Mass Destruction fiasco.....Katrina-Mr. Brown-FEMA fiasco to get a clue at how CLUELESS some in government are!)

To answer your question, will there be another pandemic?:

It's hard to say, but most scientists who study cycles of virology, believe that we have ripened our population for one, due to the indiscriminate use of anti-biotics, anti-virals, etc.

If there will be another pandemic, should we be preparing for it now?:

The answer is YES...IF WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE PREPARING FOR.

REMEMBER THE GOVERNMENT'S ANSWER AFTER 911 THAT WE SHOULD ALL GO OUT AND BUY PLASTIC AND DUCT TAPE TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM CHEMICAL ATTACK???

If we are going to prepare, LET'S HAVE A SOLID FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE HECK WE ARE PREPARING FOR!!

Finally, if there will be another pandemic, how will we recognized(recognize) the start of it?:

1) we must allow scientists/virologists etc. to operate freely, without political or monetary prejudice.

2)we must recognize this is a WORLD issue, and not just Our County, USA issue, and therefore must allow other intelligent thinkers into the decision making process...(this would PRE-CLUDE some CDC people's decision to run the world according to the USA way of thinking.)

3)We must allow these uninhibited scientists and virologists the freedom to make decisions based on THEIR knowledge, not on someone in a government or drug company agency that may or may not act on that knowledge appropriately.

When this pathway is opened up, believe me, those who have studied, tracked, etc. the potential of pandemic, will know it when they see it....

Shouldn't these be the people we listen to?