Pa None Smoking!

[LisaG21]

PA just passed that it will be a none smoking state and resturants and bars have to comply within 2 years!! :balloons: WOOOHOOOO:balloons:

[cadillac05]

Not a very thought-ful answer to the question posed.

[cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN]

Given the fact that most 'baby-boomers' and lots of their children grew up in homes of smokers and were in a society where smoking took place freely, just how in the world have so many millions survived the "second-hand smoke kills" phenomona? Research is a multi-billion dollar industry that produces conflicting results so they can justify their existence and continue raking in the $$$. It's hard for me to take any of it very seriously, certainly not enough to create the myriad of laws that govern behavior.

I'll answer it! Last time I visited my local ICU and med-surg, it sure was full of COPD'ers and asthmatics.

I don't think they're surviving very well at all, actually.

But that doesn't matter. What matters is-in my town, you can't smoke in any restaurant. Argue this and argue that-the tide is turining against smokers both publically and legally. I don't forsee the smoking ban reversing any time soon. Thank God!

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

Funny, I don't see lawmakers having any issues or problems passing these laws. These laws are being spread all over the country. I think the people, and the market, has spoken.

You confuse the government with the free market.

Sorry, not one and the same.

Personal regulation would be a grand thing if it were actually exercised. These bans are necessary because so often, people don't regulate themselves and the harm their behaviors cause others. If we could rely solely on people behaving responsibly, we wouldn't need to have any laws at all, would we?

None of the patrons (or workers) in the 6 different bar/restraunts I frequent on a weekly basis have any issues what so ever with smoking.

Why can't they be allowed to smoke in their establishment? They are exercising personal regulation - and no body else is complaining.

But now, because of a blanket ban, nobody gets to do what they find mutually acceptable.

That's just a personal example - I'm sure you will find some in your own locality.

Likewise, I'm sure there are enough people fed up with cigarette smoke. Those people are probably visiting those establishments which cater to their needs of a smoke free environment.

Those who mind the smoke, will go to smoke free establishments. Those who don't mind it, won't mind patronising establishments where smoking is allowed. Both parties get to live their way of life - the free market works, if we let it....

But nah. We'd rather have the State nanny us from the cradle to the grave.

[RainDreamer, BSN, RN]

I'll answer it! Last time I visited my local ICU and med-surg, it sure was full of COPD'ers and asthmatics.

Bingo! And who's paying for most of that?

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

Bingo! And who's paying for most of that?

Who is paying for obesity related health problems?

[RainDreamer, BSN, RN]

Who is paying for obesity related health problems?

Did I miss the obesity related health problems thread? I thought this was on the topic of smoking.

[cadillac05]

Bingo! And who's paying for most of that?

What other factors play a part in the numerous medical diagnoses of those patients? Ask any environmentalist (gag) about all the polutants in our air. They like to 'crusade law' people to death, too.

The majority of our Medicare patients have led productive lives, paid taxes for years and are only utilizing the funds they contributed to.

And...what happened to all the $$$ states got from the fraudulant settlements with tobacco companies supposedly earmarked for healthcare?

I do not concede that smoking is healthy, but it is not the only cause of illness. After all, people have been sick and dying for centuries.

Amen, Roy, that laws are not the answer---for smoking, seat belt use, helmuts...long, long list.

[cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN]

You confuse the government with the free market.

Sorry, not one and the same.

.

That's why I said the people and the market. That means they are 2 different things.

Like it not, these laws are passing and they are passing easily and quickly.

...and you still can't smoke here in Az (and soon-everywhere else)!

[cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN]

Amen, Roy, that laws are not the answer---for smoking, seat belt use, helmuts...long, long list.

So, you're against seat belts and helmets too?? Are you ok with children in the back of pick-up trucks?

Unfortunately (for you), laws are the answer. That's why we live in a society dominated by laws. It's called a democratic republic. My lawmakers are speaking for me and for you-and they're saying no to smoking.

[RainDreamer, BSN, RN]

I won't get into everything else, I thought this was on the topic of smoking.

You can still smoke in Phoenix restaurants ..... for now anyway, until the statewide ban is passed.

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

So, you're against seat belts and helmets too??

Not quite. I'm not against seat-belts or helmets - I'm against mandatory usage.

The key issue is coercion. I am not a smoker anymore and do not particularly like the smell of second-hand smoke but I would rather have the choice about whether I eat in a smoke free restaurant. I do not want others making that choice for me.

Similarly I think wearing seat belts in a car, and a crash helmet on a bike, is a good idea but no one should be forced to it. If people had to make their own arrangments concerning medical insurance, and they wanted to ride helmet free, they could just arrange a higher risk rate with their insurer and pay a higher premium. It would all be their choice.

The issue for me is always about coercion. If we want a mature and responsible society we have to give citizens back their responsibility to make decisions for themselves. This is the other side of the Rights coin. No rights without responsibility.

Of course this also means we have to allow people to make their own mistakes and if those mistakes harm someone else, or their property, the offender should have to make reparations and accept punishment. Mistakes that harm only yourself should not be crimes. A person either learns from mistakes or becomes yet another dead end on the evolutionary tree.

The simple fact is that hardly anyone I have ever met in real life has even a vague understanding what private property is.

Pubs/bars/restraunts are considered public places because, variously, they are called "public houses"; because they are "licensed" (i.e. permitted to exist) by the government, and by extension the public; because they are physically accessible by roads paid for by the public; or because they invite the public in.

I despair.

Are you ok with children in the back of pick-up trucks?

No. But I won't use the long arm of the law to tell parents how they ought to raise their kids.

Unfortunately (for you), laws are the answer. That's why we live in a society dominated by laws.

Start making absurd laws and people will start losing respect for the law.

It's called a democratic republic.

Actually it's a "federal republic".

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

That's why I said the people and the market.

The market hasn't spoken - free market implies I have a choice.

Where is this choice?