OR nursing.... "real nursing"

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · May 16, 2006

The problem with a few respondents is they use "kid" gloves to get things done.

That really wasn't necessary. There's ways of getting things done just as quickly and safely without being derrogatory or rude, and turning things into a battle.

(No point in replying back)

toto5559 · May 16, 2006

i work at a clinic. now that is a way different kind of nursing. alot of paperwork. LOL i still get my skills in, like today i changed a supra pubic cath, and gave a lot of shots and such. i have the LPN AAS degree so i can do IV's but at a clinic only RN's can do that. OR nursing is just like that in a way. i could never remember all the techniquesand equipment and what is needed for every surgery. i guess it takes a special kinda of person to be in the OR, same as in a clinic:):)

shodobe · May 17, 2006

That really wasn't necessary. There's ways of getting things done just as quickly and safely without being derrogatory or rude, and turning things into a battle.
(No point in replying back)

Exactly my point. I don't think I was rude at all just honest. I have been doing this a very long time and have seen the OR change in many ways, some good some bad. I have a strong opinion on certain things and the one thing I am not is rude, just my own two cents worth which some people take way too personal. I don't battle anyone on any subject because no matter how you feel about a subject some people will turn it into a cause.

subee, MSN, CRNA · May 19, 2006

I have a question...... Do any of you think that OR nursing is not 'really" "nursing" at all? I mean what we do is important, but, when you compare it to the other areas of nursing, I think it is so very different. I was thinking the other day, I dont even bring a stethoscope to work!!! I have no need for one, dont start IV's, dont give any meds, although I retrieve them from pyxis, give them to the field, abx to anesthesia, etc..... but.....not that I cant say I mind this, as I have really no interest at all in med surg floor type nursing.....which is why I guess I was drwan to the OR.but what do you all think? My manager even said, in a half joking way, "this is not nursing, this is the OR!!!"

RNNOTTODAY: I wanted to respond to this the instant I saw it but I couldn't because we have been working so late every night because we don't have any nurses. I've opined on this board before and many nurses got angry because I postulated that OR nursing is not "nursing." I've worked in the or for 28 years (in about seven OR's counting school) and I've never seen a nurse even tough a patient except to move to the OR table. I don't consider starting IV's nursing -EMT's do it very well. I don't consider watching the sterile field nursing, because its just "Watching!" and doesn't require higher order thinking. But that's rhetorical blather (love to debate). I see the same group of almost 50 year old people floating around from hospital to hospital but its the same group of people. We need new blood and it takes too long to "train" an OR nurse with someone from the floor - and its really unfair to send us an RN who has no experience at all and doesn't even know how to hand over meds in a code. I have proposed a 2 year program that educates nurses only to work in the OR. They take the same core nursing courses as the other nursing students but are exposed to scrubbing, OR meds, biotechnology, electronics. When they graduate there will be no need for a six month or 1 year orientation (when they leave to go elsewhere or get pregnant), they'll be able to start out scrubbing right away while they learn the ropes around the new OR setting. Its easier to recruit an 18 year old into the OR than it is to get a 35 year old down here. We do over 1,000 cases per room a year where I work. The hours are long and the patients are increasingly industrial sized. The instrument trays are heavy. The nurses I work with are tired of all the extra call because we often work until 11 p.m. - often more than one room so the call team has to come in. I just don't see how old thinking is going to come up with new nurses. I know this might be rambling but its 11 p.m. and I wanted to reply to your original post before another week goes by.

CuttingEdgeRN · May 19, 2006

RNNOTTODAY: I've opined on this board before and many nurses got angry because I postulated that OR nursing is not "nursing." I've worked in the or for 28 years (in about seven OR's counting school) and I've never seen a nurse even tough a patient except to move to the OR table. .

WOW...... Looks like your CrnA title has made you lose your RN sense? I work in surgery and I do NURSING every day. What's up with your thoughts?:trout:

Corvette Guy · May 19, 2006

WOW...... Looks like your CrnA title has made you lose your RN sense? I work in surgery and I do NURSING every day. What's up with your thoughts?:trout:

CRNAs are the bomb! :rolleyes:

CuttingEdgeRN · May 19, 2006

CRNAs are the bomb!

LOL, Mostly I agree with you but I believe someone set one off in this thread!

BOOM!!! :lol2:

subee, MSN, CRNA · May 23, 2006

WOW...... Looks like your CrnA title has made you lose your RN sense? I work in surgery and I do NURSING every day. What's up with your thoughts?:trout:

Please elucidate what skills you use in the OR (not PACU) that are specifically R.N. skills only and why does it make more sense to have a generalist RN work in the OR instead of an RN prepared specifically for the OR? What is the advantage of the hospitals training you instead of college?

I'm not doing this to be snotty but I've been observing OR nurses for over 25 years. I've seen so many nurses leave after a long orientation which costs the hospital a LOT of money. In your answer, don't be defensive. I'm not knocking the skills of the OR specialist. I just believe that they are very different from generalist RN training and deserve to be addressed as a real specialty - not picked up on the job.

subee, MSN, CRNA · May 23, 2006

CRNAs are the bomb!

And I forgot to add- what is your solution for the getting to be serious shortage of OR nurses? (I see another poster on this board wondering why a circulator is so hard to find). Do we have any obligation to society to bring more people to the OR? Why can't we try something new - in a limited way - a pilot program? What we're doing now isn't working to bring enough new blood into the specialty.

HRM672 · May 23, 2006

I'm a student who is graduating in December and at this point I am tentatively planning on going into the OR. I'm a second career student, 31yo. I find this discussion very interesting because I have wondered why there isn't more exposure to the OR in nursing school. It's hard to decide if it's what I really want to do, when the most exposure I've had to it has been similarly confusing discussions on this board. I wonder, why can't we have a class and clinical rotation through the OR like we do with every other specialty so that we can at least understand what it's all about? It wouldn't go far towards teaching OR skills, but maybe it would help attract more OR nurses, and help other nurses have a better understanding of what goes on in an OR.

Taking the question of whether or not OR nursing is "nursing" aside--it's a career path that can only be reached through an RN, therefore even if it's radically different, it's nursing--do you all think that OR nursing is a challenging, interesting job? Different though it may be?

I'm interested in your opinions, and if any of my phrasing seems offensive it wasn't at all intended to be.

CuttingEdgeRN · May 23, 2006

Operating room nurses who provide direct patient care work with the patient, other health care professionals, family members, and caregivers in planning, implementing and evaluating treatment. During surgery, the RN may serve as the scrub nurse, passing instruments, sponges and other items; the RN also may serve as the circulating nurse, managing the overall nursing care in the OR--observing the surgical team from a broad perspective and assisting the team in creating and maintaining a safe, comfortable environment

Operating room, perioperative nurses, are relied on for their professional judgment and critical thinking skills. They are vital to planning, implementing and evaluating the treatment of patients. Roles include, circulating nurse, scrub nurse, and RN first assistant, who assists the surgeon during surgery.

You will practice basic surgical nursing skills, including verifying proper consent, scrubbing, gowning and gloving; wound dressing, and heart and lung assessment, managing the patient receiving moderate sedation, assisting the anesthesia provider with induction and intubation, Sponge and instrument count, documentation of all events, laser safety for patient and staff, monitoring placement and length of usage for pheumatic tourniquets, proper patient positioning, specimen care and handling, maintaining sterile field. trouble shooting all equipment used in procedure.......

I can see your line of thought about the special OR RN training after the core nursing courses. I wonder if that would ever come to play. As you mentioned, we are all "older". I am 48yo, and sometimes I feel like I am one of the youngest! The 6 month orientation and poof they are gone. We all get tired of that. It does take a "special" type of person to make it in the OR. You must have high self esteem and confidence in yourself. But mostly, the patience to gain that while orientating. I understand your point of view, on no basic nursing skills needed, but I still disagree and feel like I am NURSING every day. I have no idea how to fix the shortage problem. Maybe a special extension course after graduation for GN's or RN's to attend (like you mentioned) to gain a certificate and then pay an OR nurse differential for certification? Just my ramblings here as I am TIRED from a long day in surgery!

EDIT: Subee: Please elucidate what skills you use in the OR (not PACU) that are specifically R.N. skills only OKAY, OKAY I just proved you right, I see, after re-reading my post! Dag Nabbit!

CuttingEdgeRN · May 23, 2006

I'm a student who is graduating in December and at this point I am tentatively planning on going into the OR. I'm a second career student, 31yo. I find this discussion very interesting because I have wondered why there isn't more exposure to the OR in nursing school. It's hard to decide if it's what I really want to do, when the most exposure I've had to it has been similarly confusing discussions on this board. I wonder, why can't we have a class and clinical rotation through the OR like we do with every other specialty so that we can at least understand what it's all about? It wouldn't go far towards teaching OR skills, but maybe it would help attract more OR nurses, and help other nurses have a better understanding of what goes on in an OR.
Taking the question of whether or not OR nursing is "nursing" aside--it's a career path that can only be reached through an RN, therefore even if it's radically different, it's nursing--do you all think that OR nursing is a challenging, interesting job? Different though it may be?
I'm interested in your opinions, and if any of my phrasing seems offensive it wasn't at all intended to be.

OR nursing is extremely challenging and mostly very interesting! I do wish there was more exposure in nursing school. I attended a diploma school (20yrs ago) and we did have a 2 week clinical in the OR and even scrubbed in. We were encouraged to work ICU before OR to develop our critical thinking. There are some days I feel like a "gopher with a title". but not often and I am sure the med surg nurses have their "highly paid waitress" days as well! I have found that you either HATE it or LOVE it! Please shadow an OR nurse for a couple of days. That will give you a better feel for the job. Good Luck to you!