Ohio Nurses Speak Out

oramar · Jan 13, 2008

Well good for them.

MBANurse · Jan 14, 2008

I am sorry... I am confused... according to this website for the Greater Cleveland Nurses Association... the Ohio Nurses Association supports the bill...

http://www.clevelandnurse.org/docs/HB%20346%20Update--Alert.htm

and it is the CNA organization that is against it...

So it would seem to me to be more appropriate to say that Ohio Nurses are split on the bill...

Tiffanysmom · Jan 14, 2008

:igtsyt:i think the public deserves to know the nurse to patient ratio and the stna ratios ! i am starting school tomorrow for nursing and i am already an stna ( for ten years ) and i have seen the outcome for overloaded nurses and stna's. it is ridiculous !! we are the ones that get yelled at if something goes wrong or doesn't get done. nevermind the fact that we are one person and can only get so much done in 8 hours !

sorry, just blowing off some steam ! :angryfirethis ratio thing really gets under my skin !

you nurses have my total support !!!!

signed -

a future nurse and proud ! :nurse: :heartbeat:saint:

MBANurse · Jan 14, 2008

:igtsyt:i think the public deserves to know the nurse to patient ratio and the stna ratios ! i am starting school tomorrow for nursing and i am already an stna ( for ten years ) and i have seen the outcome for overloaded nurses and stna's. it is ridiculous !! we are the ones that get yelled at if something goes wrong or doesn't get done. nevermind the fact that we are one person and can only get so much done in 8 hours !
sorry, just blowing off some steam ! :angryfirethis ratio thing really gets under my skin !
you nurses have my total support !!!!
signed -
a future nurse and proud !:heartbeat:saint:

i am glad that you are becoming a nurse and you want to be involved... i just think the title and underlying intent of this post is misleading.

"ohio nurses" aren't against the bill and speaking out...

some nurses in ohio are... that would be far more accurate and better still would be some nurses support the bill while others oppose it.

pickledpepperRN · Jan 14, 2008

Ohio hospitals already can staff safely. They don't need a new smokescreen law to do so.

Staffing needs to be by acuity of which the ratio is the minimum.

Julia RN · Jan 21, 2008

The bill which is backed by the Ohio Nurses Association, HB 346, is also supported by the Ohio Organization of Nurse Executives and the Ohio Hospital Association. That says something to me as I do not see these last two organizations as champions of the staff nurse.

Ohio is one of the four states that disaffiliated from their national union, United American Nurses, last month. The UAN is supporting federal staffing legislation that mandates minimum staffing ratios that are upwardly adjustable for acuity and available skill mix. The ANA is in opposition to this bill.

AltecRN · Jan 21, 2008

The Ohio Nurses Association does support HB 346 for several reasons:

- this is not looked on as the end all and be all of getting reasonable staffing levels in Ohio. Currently there is no legislation in Ohio related to RN staffing. This is a foot in the door and one that has the support of a number of legislators. It is realized this is not the best that can be done BUT for those familiar with Ohio politics it should be obvious that this is the best we can expect to have a decent chance of passing at this time. When you start out it is better to have half a loaf rather than no loaf.

- Ohio is not California, it is a conservative state ( I mean this in the general definition of conservative) A strict Nurse/Patient ratio staffing bill would have no chance of passing with the current make-up of the Ohio legislature, particularly the Ohio Senate. Pushing a strict ration law will only turn off those "fence-sitting" legislators that are needed to get an initial bill passed.

- It has been argued that California tried a similar law before the current ratio law and it didn't work but there is a point there - they took steps. By going with the initial law they were able to demonstrate that more was needed and it lead to the development of the current California ration law. Think the old phrase "baby steps"

Solving this situation is a process not a one step program. Part of getting good legislation passed is educating and persuading people to listen. If you start with the most radical solution you turn too many people off and nothing gets done.

I have one final question at this time. If a Nurse/Patient ration bill were passed in the next several months where would we get all the nurses needed to meet the standards set. Our efforts need to be geared on a number of fronts including getting more adequate compensation for Nursing faculty, enlarging the nursing population and working for legislation to make a safer environment for our patients and our selves. Proposing radical solutions that look good and get people all riled up make for good sound bites but are impractical to implement at this time, turn off people needed to help us meet our goals and are not constructive solutions to the challenges facing all nurses.

Julia RN · Jan 21, 2008

mzpro5RN- Appreciate your comments. Environmental scan is a vital component to determining strategy. You are home to Congressman Kucinich, though, so the entire state can't be conservative, no?

I'm not convinced that these "committee" bills are any easier to pass or implement than "minimum ratio + committee" bills. I'm thinking of Oregon as an example. They passed a committee type bill and are having problems with implementation. They're especially hard to implement in non-unionized facilities.

As far as where the nurses will come from to meet minimum standards, remember any legislation that is passed will take many years to implement. This can also be built into the legislation or come out with the regulations to implement the bill. The actual passage is only one component of the "negotiating" process.

I believe that if you build it, they (nurses) will come and more will be drawn to our profession. Regardless of which approach to staffing is applied, the bottom line is more nurses are needed. I do applaud all efforts to improve patient safety and working conditions, even baby steps. I'm just not convinced they will get us where we need to be in time to address the patient safety and nursing shortage crisis.

RN Power Ohio · Jan 21, 2008

The Ohio Nurses Association does support HB 346 for several reasons:
- this is not looked on as the end all and be all of getting reasonable staffing levels in Ohio. Currently there is no legislation in Ohio related to RN staffing. This is a foot in the door and one that has the support of a number of legislators. It is realized this is not the best that can be done BUT for those familiar with Ohio politics it should be obvious that this is the best we can expect to have a decent chance of passing at this time. When you start out it is better to have half a loaf rather than no loaf.
- Ohio is not California, it is a conservative state ( I mean this in the general definition of conservative) A strict Nurse/Patient ratio staffing bill would have no chance of passing with the current make-up of the Ohio legislature, particularly the Ohio Senate. Pushing a strict ration law will only turn off those "fence-sitting" legislators that are needed to get an initial bill passed.
- It has been argued that California tried a similar law before the current ratio law and it didn't work but there is a point there - they took steps. By going with the initial law they were able to demonstrate that more was needed and it lead to the development of the current California ration law. Think the old phrase "baby steps"
Solving this situation is a process not a one step program.
If a Nurse/Patient ration bill were passed in the next several months where would we get all the nurses needed to meet the standards set. Our efforts need to be geared on a number of fronts including getting more adequate compensation for Nursing faculty, enlarging the nursing population and working for legislation to make a safer environment for our patients and our selves. Proposing radical solutions that look good and get people all riled up make for good sound bites but are impractical to implement at this time, turn off people needed to help us meet our goals and are not constructive solutions to the challenges facing all nurses.

Ok, what good does it do to fight for ineffective and meaningless legislation? No one is hoping to get any staffing legislation passed in the next few months except OHA. If our legislature is not ready it is because we have not made them ready. Democrats, republicans, conservatives and liberals all have a vested interest in this issue. Patient safety. If we are putting efforts into low standard because it is "winnable" what have we really "won"?

Furthermore, why enact legislation that has not worked in other states? Not only California but also Texas, Illinois and Massachusetts. This is a foolhardy mission. Should every state endure a 12 year fight for a minimum mandate?

What is so radical about a limit to the number of patients a nurse can care for? That sounds like basic common sense to me.

If you look at the statistics you will see there are more than enough RN's in the state of Ohio to implement ratio's today! Maybe if work environment became more manageable nurses like myself who work part time would return to the workforce full time. One of the nurses touting herself as having a "key role" in bringing HB 346 to the table was not even aware that similar legislation has been introduced in other states. Why not seek out the facts before assuming that one position is wrong. Why not work together for real life-saving, nurse-saving legislation? There are already many initiatives to increase education. Why is everyone ovelooking the fact that there are people dying (more than breast cancer and aids combined) and that there is a hole in the bucket.. we can graduate as many new nurses as possible but if all experienced nurses leave we will always have a shortage. Why should any young person choose bedside nursing as a career under the circumstances that exist today? We need to fight the right fight together and then we can acheive the right outcome!

RN Power Ohio · Jan 21, 2008

1) nothing in hb 346 will change the status quo in ohio’s hospitals. there is nothing in the bill which makes the hospitals accountable for setting safe standards. the language throughout the bill is weak and ineffectual.

2) hb 346 will neither save lives nor reverse the shortage of nurses who are willing to work in hospitals. a similar bill was passed in texas which only resulted in an increase in the rn vacancy rate and turnover rate!

3) hb 346 will perpetuate the economic disparities in hospital care … by asking for “flexibility” the ohio hospital assn. really wants to be able to set different standards for different hospitals, according to the hospital’s financial situation. this will continue worse nursing care in hospitals in disadvantaged communities. furthermore, most hospitals in ohio are doing well financially.

4.) just read the fiscal analysis of the bill it tells it all. no costs for increased staffing- only paper! http://www.lbo.state.oh.us/fiscal/fi...a/hb0346in.htm

5.) no whistleblower protection!

6.) hospitals already have staffing plans.

7.) hospitals already have nurse staffing committees

a real ratio bill is being introduced soon!

AltecRN · Jan 21, 2008

Ok, what good does it do to fight for ineffective and meaningless legislation? No one is hoping to get any staffing legislation passed in the next few months except OHA. If our legislature is not ready it is because we have not made them ready. Democrats, republicans, conservatives and liberals all have a vested interest in this issue. Patient safety. If we are putting efforts into low standard because it is "winnable" what have we really "won"?
Furthermore, why enact legislation that has not worked in other states? Not only California but also Texas, Illinois and Massachusetts. This is a foolhardy mission. Should every state endure a 12 year fight for a minimum mandate?
What is so radical about a limit to the number of patients a nurse can care for? That sounds like basic common sense to me.
If you look at the statistics you will see there are more than enough RN's in the state of Ohio to implement ratio's today! Maybe if work environment became more manageable nurses like myself who work part time would return to the workforce full time. One of the nurses touting herself as having a "key role" in bringing HB 346 to the table was not even aware that similar legislation has been introduced in other states. Why not seek out the facts before assuming that one position is wrong. Why not work together for real life-saving, nurse-saving legislation? There are already many initiatives to increase education. Why is everyone ovelooking the fact that there are people dying (more than breast cancer and aids combined) and that there is a hole in the bucket.. we can graduate as many new nurses as possible but if all experienced nurses leave we will always have a shortage. Why should any young person choose bedside nursing as a career under the circumstances that exist today? We need to fight the right fight together and then we can acheive the right outcome!

You are making value judgements to match the fact the only thing you will except is specific nurse/patient ratios. You also seem a bit politically naive to think we can immediately change all legislators minds to agree on this subject. The current proposed legislation is not ineffective and meaningless, it is a beginning. As far as vested interest on the part of legislators there are many issues one would think all legislators have a vested interest in yet they can hardly agree that the sky is blue.

I would like you to show me that statistics that there are enough nurses currently in Ohio today to staff for ratios? I do not think that patient/ratio staffing is radical but many lawmakers do. Remember we are in an election year and politicos will tell you many things to get your support.

No one is overlooking the safety factors and mortality rates but unfortunately in politics and law-making one has to "play the game". I do not think nurse/patient ratios are wrong but do feel there is a more effective way to work towards solving the problem than spinning my wheels for something that in the current atmosphere is just not going to happen. Along with advocacy and fighting the right fight is taking off the rose colored glasses and being realistic. I applaud your enthusiasm but am saddened by your naivte.