Master's entry programs vs. Bachelor's Programs

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 25, 2005

yes granted but i would highly doubt any hospital would cut an inexperienced cnm loose. there must be some sort of balance to compensate for being inexperienced. yes residents do deliver babies in hospitals. med school graduates have very little clinical experience when they begin assisting in deliveries. i just feel like some of the nurses here have the my way of obtaining my degree is the best way attitude. i dont know if its jealousy of the fact that these people complete it faster or what. im just reading some of the threads and the animosity is ridiculous. my cousin gets the same snotty comments from experienced nurses shes in an accelerated program for np as well i just tell her to ignore them and work hard. as nurses and nurses to be we should support eachother not bring eachother down. i plan on attending med school this summer and never plan on shooting down anyones dream
Sorry to have to disagree but it's not "jealousy", believe me. I think some growing up is in order for people to automatically say this without the experiences to back them up.
Energizer, If I wanted to be a CNM OR an MD I could, I have both the brains and ability. Most RN's do, that is a fact. Some are doing this as we speak. (including you, I read someplace else).
Personally, I CHOOSE not to do these things for many reasons. My time is way too valuable to be on-call all the time or to be chained to any job off duty. My family is and always will be first, nursing a distant 2nd. This is why I remain an RN and very proud of it. So, NOPE, I am NOT jealous or resentful. I am grateful; I think I have it very good. I take off when I want, take vacations with my spouse and kids several times a year and homeschool both my kids. I have my priorities set and am happy with them. Being an MD or CNM would upset the whole balance for me, and I am unwilling to go there.
Another thing: the fact is, the more real world experiences a person has, the more he or she brings to the table (or in other words, the clinical area). That is the bottom-line truth. Sorry if you happen to disagree. I have some years in the business and know a little bit about what I am saying here.
What is "ridiculous" to me is someone without any real experience saying these things about us or our opinions. NO one is wanting to "crush dreams", but perhaps is infusing some reality into the situation based on experience. Anyone who knows me here, knows I am more than encouraging to others wanting or needing it, but I also like to keep it real.
Have a good day and good luck in Med School to you. Like you said in another thread, if it does not work out or your priorities change, you "always have nursing to fall back on" as a BSN who graduated this year. Meantime, You have a few years to learn some things, and experience will be AT least as good a teacher as book learning will be, especially in medicine. (or nursing) :)

suewolfie · Feb 25, 2005

Thank you so much for all of your responses. Your advice is really helpful.

The last thing I want to do is get into over $100K in debt for this Vanderbilt program and graduate, enter the field, and be perceived as some hotshot who really doesn't know what she's doing because she doesn't have the clinical experience.

I think a lot of what you all are saying has a lot of merit. It makes sense to me that getting the BSN first, working for a few years, and then going back to get the master's degree is the way to do it. I am only 25, so it's not a HUGE rush to me at this point. But I am excited to get through school and get on with things, I'll admit. I want to be careful not to jump the gun though.

My philosophy is that these programs wouldn't exist if they were total crap. But I want to be the most confident, well-trained, and competent nurse I can be, and if that means taking a slower route, then so be it.

I'll also be saving a TON of money doing it this way.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 25, 2005

I would not perceive you as a "hotshot" but would want and hope you to be open to learning from the RN's around you if you were to choose such a program. Like I said earlier, no one here is about "crushing dreams". You have a right to yours. I hope they work out.

energizerbunny05 · Feb 25, 2005

yes granted but i would highly doubt any hospital would cut an inexperienced cnm loose. there must be some sort of balance to compensate for being inexperienced. yes residents do deliver babies in hospitals. med school graduates have very little clinical experience when they begin assisting in deliveries. i just feel like some of the nurses here have the my way of obtaining my degree is the best way attitude. i dont know if its jealousy of the fact that these people complete it faster or what. im just reading some of the threads and the animosity is ridiculous. my cousin gets the same snotty comments from experienced nurses shes in an accelerated program for np as well i just tell her to ignore them and work hard. as nurses and nurses to be we should support eachother not bring eachother down. i plan on attending med school this summer and never plan on shooting down anyones dream
Sorry to have to disagree but it's not "jealousy", believe me. I think some growing up is in order for people to automatically say this without the experiences to back them up.
Energizer, If I wanted to be a CNM OR an MD I could, I have both the brains and ability. Most RN's do, that is a fact. Some are doing this as we speak. (including you, I read someplace else).
Personally, I CHOOSE not to do these things for many reasons. My time is way too valuable to be on-call all the time or to be chained to any job off duty. My family is and always will be first, nursing a distant 2nd. This is why I remain an RN and very proud of it. So, NOPE, I am NOT jealous or resentful. I am grateful; I think I have it very good. I take off when I want, take vacations with my spouse and kids several times a year and homeschool both my kids. I have my priorities set and am happy with them. Being an MD or CNM would upset the whole balance for me, and I am unwilling to go there.
Another thing: the fact is, the more real world experiences a person has, the more he or she brings to the table (or in other words, the clinical area). That is the bottom-line truth. Sorry if you happen to disagree. I have some years in the business and know a little bit about what I am saying here.
What is "ridiculous" to me is someone without any real experience saying these things about us or our opinions. NO one is wanting to "crush dreams", but perhaps is infusing some reality into the situation based on experience. Anyone who knows me here, knows I am more than encouraging to others wanting or needing it, but I also like to keep it real.
Have a good day and good luck in Med School to you. Like you said in another thread, if it does not work out or your priorities change, you "always have nursing to fall back on" as a BSN who graduated this year. Meantime, You have a few years to learn some things, and experience will be AT least as good a teacher as book learning will be, especially in medicine. (or nursing) :)
im sorry i did not mean to offend you maybe jealousy was not the right word instead frustration may be better suited. i guess i myself was just a little frustrated when i read the np thread on direct entry program the negativity was extreme. first of all i never said u were not capable of becoming a cnm or an md so i dont know where thats coming from.
second i did notice on other forums the snotty comments by some nurses such as i would not want so and so nurse treating me without x amount of years of experience. when in reality most people do not even bother to ask their provider about experience.
third just as u stated how can u give a good perspective on anyone wanting to be a cnm straight out of nursing school when u do not have any experience in this yourself. Meaning that if none of these nurses actually went through a direct entry program how can they determine anyone's motivation or rate of success or whether it is the best path or not.
Good thing you do have life experiences hopefully i will obtain them as well with age. and just because u do not agree with someone else and their choices does not give anyone the right to doubt anyones motivation because in the end they r the ones who will go through the program and sacrifice years of education. to each his own everyone is free to do what they please. your definition of keeping it real is only that your definition. again iam sorry for the jealousy comment i was out of line but so are some nurses with their comments. IMHO

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 25, 2005

im sorry i did not mean to offend you maybe jealousy was not the right word instead frustration may be better suited. i guess i myself was just a little frustrated when i read the np thread on direct entry program the negativity was extreme. first of all i never said u were not capable of becoming a cnm or an md so i dont know where thats coming from.
second i did notice on other forums the snotty comments by some nurses such as i would not want so and so nurse treating me without x amount of years of experience. when in reality most people do not even bother to ask their provider about experience.
third just as u stated how can u give a good perspective on anyone wanting to be a cnm straight out of nursing school when u do not have any experience in this yourself. Meaning that if none of these nurses actually went through a direct entry program how can they determine anyone's motivation or rate of success or whether it is the best path or not.
Good thing you do have life experiences hopefully i will obtain them as well with age. and just because u do not agree with someone else and their choices does not give anyone the right to doubt anyones motivation because in the end they r the ones who will go through the program and sacrifice years of education. to each his own everyone is free to do what they please. your definition of keeping it real is only that your definition. again iam sorry for the jealousy comment i was out of line but so are some nurses with their comments. IMHO
Well, I can offer in a valid and "good" perspective because I have worked with MANY obstetricians, family practice doctors, midwives and NP's of varying abilities in my career ----and whether you like it or not, EXPERIENCE IS EVERYTHING in this business. I have seen evidence of this time and again in my relatively short career.......
And my definition of "keeping it real" IS mine, you are so right---- but I speak from my own experience and that does count for something. You speak from little to no experience, that is clear. That's ok, we have all been there at one point and all have had a lot to learn. But......
Come back and argue that I am totally wrong when you have 7 or 8 years in ob patient care under your belt like I do (or more than 20 or 30 years like some of the much more experienced others who spoke in this thread have). Have a good day. And best wishes to you.

energizerbunny05 · Feb 25, 2005

Well, I can offer in a valid and "good" perspective because I have worked with MANY obstetricians, family practice doctors, midwives and NP's of varying abilities in my career ----and whether you like it or not, EXPERIENCE IS EVERYTHING in this business. I have seen evidence of this time and again in my relatively short career.......
And my definition of "keeping it real" IS mine, you are so right---- but I speak from my own experience and that does count for something. You speak from little to no experience, that is clear. That's ok, we have all been there at one point and all have had a lot to learn. But......
Come back and argue that I am totally wrong when you have 7 or 8 years in ob patient care under your belt like I do (or more than 20 or 30 years like some of the much more experienced others who spoke in this thread have). Have a good day. And best wishes to you.
u make valid points u r more experienced but i wasnt really directing my first opinion at u but it seems u took offense whatever... its like beating a dead horse opinions are opinions thats that nothing is written in stone. yale has had a direct entry program for years and has succeded so it cant be that bad if it were im be sure it would have not maintained the program. in my honest opinion people that complete these programs either succeed or dont im sure many have than have not. best wishes to u and i meant no disrespect to u personally.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 25, 2005

u make valid points u r more experienced but i wasnt really directing my first opinion at u but it seems u took offense whatever... its like beating a dead horse opinions are opinions thats that nothing is written in stone. yale has had a direct entry program for years and has succeded so it cant be that bad if it were im be sure it would have not maintained the program. in my honest opinion people that complete these programs either succeed or dont im sure many have than have not. best wishes to u and i meant no disrespect to u personally.
You quoted me in your initial post on this thread; I, therefore, responded in kind. Simple as that. Take care.

fergus51 · Feb 25, 2005

My main consideration would be does this program allow you to work for longer as an RN if you feel it is necessary? I do think SOME people could become good providers in three years. Many more people need time to consolidate their skills and assessments. So, what happens if you get your RN and want to work for 2 years before continuing on with the master's portion?

The fact that the program exists does not mean that it produces fabulous practitionners or that it's the right program for you. I would be extremely weary of any program that claims they can take people with no medical/nursing/healthcare background and produce independent practitioners in a short time.

babyktchr, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2005

Gosh...I dont really think I can say anything more than what smiling said. I agree totally. It isn't about being snotty towards those who want to pursue something like this. It is the reality that...even though programs exist that accelerate one into a career path....it may not be the wisest decision...especially when you don't have experience in the field. Delivering babies is only a fraction of what it means to be a midwife. My opinion is that there should only be a NURSE midwife option...and that you should have nursing experience in labor and delivery to be a midwife. I think it is hard to come out of a program that is already accelerated...boom you are a nurse...then go practice. The midwife that works with us now... She has never worked in a hospital setting..except for clinical and her internship. I think she is missing a big chunk of what it means to be a nurse. I am sorry if that offends. I would also say this for residents or interns OB. I worked with residents in CCU and the best thing they ever learned was listen to the nurses. They are a valuable tool in learning.

I am rambling here...it is interesting to see the responses...

Good luck in whatever you choose

elizabells, BSN, RN · Feb 26, 2005

I'm about to start one of these programs (direct NNP) and therefore, acknowledge that I know essentially nothing. My .02, though, is that I think it is possible to be successful coming out of one of these, if one is the right kind of person. By that I mean the kind of person who is willing not to jump right into practice for a while and work as a staff RN, the kind of person who respects the judgment and experience of her co-workers, the kind of person who isn't cocky just because they went to Columbia, or Yale, or wherever. I'm headed to the Columbia program, and yes, it's a top school, and yes, I'm sure the program's great, but you can be darn sure I'm going to work as a staff nurse when I'm done, for as long as it takes for me to feel ready. And yes, I hear you saying "but not everyone will do that", but I submit to you that people who are so arrogant to think they can practice independantly (esp in a NICU!) after three years of school and no real experience would be dangerous in ANY nursing capacity, whether they had an ADN or a DScN. I don't have any answers. I know that NPs have a lot more responsibility, and more potential to do harm. I just think that the reason so many of us kids (and grown-ups!) heading into these programs are posting a bit intemperately is that, correct or not, it feels like we are being judged stupid, naive, and arrogant for wanting to do these programs at all. Thank you for your time.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 26, 2005

Hmmmmm well I for one, don't see anyone calling you "stupid" or "dumb", or even "naive" for your choices. I do, however, see cautionary words here. And, I even saw one person calling US "jealous" in response when we told them why we may think it a bad idea in some cases.

If you interpret our words as insulting or want to rebel as a result, you need to grow a much thicker skin and mature a bit before you enter health care. It's dog eat dog in some cases, I tell ya. Enter advisedly. Much will be expected of you, and not much slack will be cut for you, just because you have not the experience to back you up.

fergus51 · Feb 26, 2005

Inexperienced is very different from stupid. Everyone was inexperienced at some point and there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with people answering questions based on their experience (and the op did want to know what people thought of this route).