Become a nurse in just 12 months!!!

Gennaver, MSN · Dec 11, 2005

Sorry but it is true. They do not look at the degree but the hours that were spent in the program, actually the same thing that the US does with foreign nurses that wish to work in the US. Example, currently, none of the European countries accept the accelerated degree from the US to qualfiy for licensure.
I am the Moderator for the International, the UK, as well as the NCLEX forums, and deal with this on a daily basis.

Hello and thank you for responding,

Do you have access to the list of universities or schools which do not have international accredidation? Also, do these universities also neglect to honor the NCLEX-RN licensure of students who have attended these universities?

Does the AACN, (is this right?) recognize these universities and if so, why?

Most importantly for myself, and several of my classmates who are interested in international and disaster relief nursing, is DePaul University from Chicago, IL on that list which is NOT recognized? Need to know because this is a private institution and we are paying $407. per credit hour for a 107 credit hour program. Also, we are not allowed to go below an 86% average or we are kicked out, no questions, nor are we allowed any more than a solo grade of C throughout, (as long as we are above 86%) or we are dismissed. Since this is a master's program our minimum grade of 86% is a B-. A- does not start until 92% and in order to earn an A the score must be at 95%. This is a big time, effort and cost investment. I would hate for my three classmates to get the shrift.

Thanks,

Gen

p.s. still baffled

askater11 · Dec 11, 2005

This discussion reflects a general problem in the nursing culture - my degree is better than your degree. For those of us who do have many years of experience in another field, I think it is safe to say that we know that your degree only gives you the fundamentals, the real training starts at work, that is where you really get trained. So for entry level nursing, in my opinion, it does not matter whether you have an ADN, BSN, accelerated BSN, diploma school, ... whatever... as long as you pass the NCLEX and you meet the clinical requirements of your state board. A significant factor that determine how good a nurse you are will be the kind of training you get at work.
-Dan

I think even though people pass NCLEX it's not a true sign how GOOD of a nurse they'll be. And I do not believe my degree is better then anyone elses. But I do believe I needed more hands on after graduating nursing school. Whether it be by the hospital or the nursing school. Dr's education after getting their degree is hands on--that's what I think we need more of. And I'm not talking about the "hands on" by getting hired and getting a 6 week orientation. I'm talking a good 1 year JUST working in a clinical setting itself. That's just my thought in hind site. Looking at the overall picture in the past 10 years since graduating.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 11, 2005

Hello and thank you for responding,
Do you have access to the list of universities or schools which do not have international accredidation? Also, do these universities also neglect to honor the NCLEX-RN licensure of students who have attended these universities?
Does the AACN, (is this right?) recognize these universities and if so, why?
Most importantly for myself, and several of my classmates who are interested in international and disaster relief nursing, is DePaul University from Chicago, IL on that list which is NOT recognized? Need to know because this is a private institution and we are paying $407. per credit hour for a 107 credit hour program. Also, we are not allowed to go below an 86% average or we are kicked out, no questions, nor are we allowed any more than a solo grade of C throughout, (as long as we are above 86%) or we are dismissed. Since this is a master's program our minimum grade of 86% is a B-. A- does not start until 92% and in order to earn an A the score must be at 95%. This is a big time, effort and cost investment. I would hate for my three classmates to get the shrift.
Thanks,
Gen
p.s. still baffled

Accrreditation in the US doesn't mean that it is accepted out of the country. That certification is only for the US. If you do your homework, you will also find that most provinces in Canada also do not accept the accelerated degree from the US.

Even for nurses that wish to work in the US from other countries, and they have a BSN, they still must submit a breakdown of their hours, not just their degree. US rulings currently are that they must have at least two years of training to be accepted for working in the US, and that they be considered a professional first level nurse in their country.

Example, Ontario which includes Toronto is not accpeting the accelerated program form the US, unless they have changed in the last few weeks. They are requiring a two year degree in nursing for the LPN license there, as well as a four year degree, and full four year degree for the RN.

NCLEX is not accepted out of the US for licensure, you must meet the requirements for the individual country, as well as their immigration policies to be able to work there. No US school has international accreditation as far as licensure, each country has their own list of what is required to get a license in their country, and each requires their own exam. The only way that the US license is accepted in other countires is if the US nurse works for the US military at one of their bases.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 11, 2005

Countries, inlcuding the US, go by the number of hours in each of the required areas, not the name of the degree or even title of it. A breakdown of hours must be submitted, and that is what needs to be accepted.

Same thing with Excelsior College if you look at it. It is expensive, and with that, not even all states in the US accept it for licensure.

You need to do your homework for any program out there, and what you specificially want to do with it when you finsih, and make sure that you will be able to use the degree later on.

Another example, those nurses that wish to do their graduate training out of the US, not all is accepted in the US, such as a nurse that has trained in another country as an anesthetist has to repeat the program here if they wish to work here, same thing for physicians, they have to complete another internship and residency to practice here, even if they were the top surgeon or whatever in their country.

If your goal is to work out out of the US, where it requires you to have a license in another country, do your homework first.

shodobe · Dec 11, 2005

Sorry, I guess I am too much of a traditionalist. There ARE "quickee" degrees in my book and this 12 month is in my opinion such one. As posted above, some people have degrees that put them in direct care of people in general such as pysychology but having a BS in say electrical engineering or music doesn't prepare them well enough for a tough nursing program. Being well informed or misinformed has nothing to do with it, this is just my opinion after almost 30 years of nursing, I don't like it and never will. You don't see MDs cutting their medical school in half just so there can be more doctors out there. We as nursing professional should expect the same. This is just a bandaid approach at fixing a severe nursing shortage and will eventually bite us in the butt down the road. Now, don't get me wrong there will be a majority of people who will do very well in this type of "fast" approach to nursing and a few will slip through that have no business in nursing but time will tell. Remember, this IS ONLY my opinion, so I don't need a bunch of people pointing out how "so wrong" I am. Just as before we won't be able to tell, as patients, which are the traditional nurse graduates as oppossed to the "fast track" nurses, but as fellow nurses most will be quite evident. MIke

BCzito · Dec 11, 2005

Hello Shodobe,
I do not believe there is any such thing as a "quickie" nursing degree, anywhere.
What there is, is lots and lots of misinformation and misunderstanding and misguided gossip feeding upon itself.
Gen

good point, I couldn't agree more, not to mention I think this topic definately could be included in the nurses eat their young argument. If a nurse isn't able to succeed on the job then they will be fired or they will quit, if they can do a great job, do you really care where they came from if the pts are getting great care? or is there more to this, such as some people who went the traditional route feeling cheated because they took a different route? Or angry or jealous about the program? trust me its nothing to be jealous about, they are killing me right now, but I'm willing to do the time, and I know it will pay off and I will be well trained and educated.

-bczito

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Dec 11, 2005

I couldn't agree more, not to mention I think this topic definately could be included in the nurses eat their young argument.

GROAN!!! :uhoh3:

shodobe · Dec 11, 2005

I agree with Marie, GROAN!!!! This has nothing to do with "my degree is better than yours" or " nurses eating their young". Boo Hoo! Come on, this isn't about OJT, which it sounds like more and more, it is about educating correctly, not cutting corners. This is more like, "let's fill all those empty nursing positions with undertrained individuals who just because they have some BS in some lame area will qualify for our nursing school. As you can see this is finally getting to me. I want people to go to school for the required time. I DON'T want them doing it on-line or through a correspondence program. I am old-fashioned, I admit it. I know my opinion is probably narrow minded to some but this is the way I think. We have all kinds of students come through my department and there are alot of very sharp individuals but also a bunch of stupid ones, no ther word for it! I sometimes wonder how some of them even get into nursing school. They probably have the book smarts, but when it comes to actually dealing with "live" patients and doing some critical, logical thinking they trip over their brain waves. This goes back to my belief that nusring school is just a path to get you to your real goal of caring for patients. REAL nursing doesn't begin until your out there actually taking care of patients, but you have to pay attention along the way in school to give yourself the ammunition to fire off the correct way of thinking. I know I am just an "old fart" but who cares. I think I have been around longer than most of you out there and have seen much more of what is coming out of school these days. Believe me, students 10 years ago are far ahead of what is coming out these days. Most students are more concerned about getting done so they can start making the "big money"! Jealousy? I don't think so. I love what I do and I am very, very good at what I do. I work in the OR and Marie can vouch for this, we have a higher turn over for "new" nurses because they don't have the general knowledge of nursing to make it. The OR has a tradition, IMHO, to only take the top notch people. This might sound, probably is, a might egotistical but I think about 80% of all OR applicants don't make it past their 90 days or no more than 6 months. In fact we have in our training a grad from a prestigious West coast "university" BS program. She is stupid. Sorry, no other way to put it. Critical thinking? She has none. LOgic? Not there. I know you will find these in all aspects of college, but if you shorten the amount of time in school this will only get worse down the road. More schools will graduate under trained individuals that will eventually have an impact on nursing in general. I ramble so I quit.

BCzito · Dec 11, 2005

GROAN!!!

was that a groan of agreement or annoyance?

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Dec 11, 2005

was that a groan of agreement or annoyance?

Annoyance. This topic has nothing to do with nurses eating their young.

BCzito · Dec 11, 2005

I agree with Marie, GROAN!!!! This has nothing to do with "my degree is better than yours" or " nurses eating their young". Boo Hoo! Come on, this isn't about OJT, which it sounds like more and more, it is about educating correctly, not cutting corners. This is more like, "let's fill all those empty nursing positions with undertrained individuals who just because they have some BS in some lame area will qualify for our nursing school. As you can see this is finally getting to me. I want people to go to school for the required time. I DON'T want them doing it on-line or through a correspondence program. I am old-fashioned, I admit it. I know my opinion is probably narrow minded to some but this is the way I think. We have all kinds of students come through my department and there are alot of very sharp individuals but also a bunch of stupid ones, no ther word for it! I sometimes wonder how some of them even get into nursing school. They probably have the book smarts, but when it comes to actually dealing with "live" patients and doing some critical, logical thinking they trip over their brain waves. This goes back to my belief that nusring school is just a path to get you to your real goal of caring for patients. REAL nursing doesn't begin until your out there actually taking care of patients, but you have to pay attention along the way in school to give yourself the ammunition to fire off the correct way of thinking. I know I am just an "old fart" but who cares. I think I have been around longer than most of you out there and have seen much more of what is coming out of school these days. Believe me, students 10 years ago are far ahead of what is coming out these days. Most students are more concerned about getting done so they can start making the "big money"! Jealousy? I don't think so. I love what I do and I am very, very good at what I do. I work in the OR and Marie can vouch for this, we have a higher turn over for "new" nurses because they don't have the general knowledge of nursing to make it. The OR has a tradition, IMHO, to only take the top notch people. This might sound, probably is, a might egotistical but I think about 80% of all OR applicants don't make it past their 90 days or no more than 6 months. In fact we have in our training a grad from a prestigious West coast "university" BS program. She is stupid. Sorry, no other way to put it. Critical thinking? She has none. LOgic? Not there. I know you will find these in all aspects of college, but if you shorten the amount of time in school this will only get worse down the road. More schools will graduate under trained individuals that will eventually have an impact on nursing in general. I ramble so I quit.

"some lame area?!?!" gee thats not generalizing or anything. To be honest I feel having a degree in neuroscience def gives me understanding about certain disorders (neurological and other fields) that I don't think many of my professors understand in depth. In the same token Nursing is very different from these fields, however I think the field of nursing could benefit from some integration from biological fields and vice versa (those fields could benefit allot from learning about nursing practice). As far as cutting corners, how do you know this? just because YOU don't think you could have done it in a shorter time doesn't mean others can't. I don't feel any "corners" are being cut. If I miss something its my own fault and ya know what I'd fail (I can't get below an 84 in any class or I would get kicked out of the program including clinical), I feel like you have no idea about what these programs actually entail, and for your information my biology courses for neuroscience were a hell of allot more difficult than the biology prereqs for nursing so I'll just take my "lame" education and be a great nurse and NP and then I'll think back on the "lame " individuals who said it couldn't be done and be proud of myself for not listening to angry pessimistic people. Also 10 years ago there was allot less to learn, information more than triples itself every 10 years. And ya know what I bet that student you think is so "dumb" probably admires you a great deal and wishes that she could gain experience from you, but many nurses are so busy critizing every one else that they don't see the opportunity to take a new nurse under their wing. In general its really hard being new. Maybe if nurses used some of that compassion they claim to have so much of these new grads and students would probably have allot less anxiety and be more likely to preform better on the job. That poor student is probably so flustered everytime you come near her because she knows you are judging her every move. Of course there are some people who will just never get it, but I think mentoring can go along way. One last thing, is that I often find as a student that many of the experienced nurses are not providing sufficient care, they get what needs to be done to cover their asses to their boss but don't really provide the care their pts need, this isn't always their fault however, they are overworked and have too many pts, but dec the nursing shortage would definately help.

wouldn't you agree that even nurses who take the traditional route are sometimes bad nurses while the shorter programs produce great nurses? I think there are other variables other than length of program that would determine the difference between good nurses and bad nurses.

MiaNJ · Dec 11, 2005

Sorry, I guess I am too much of a traditionalist. There ARE "quickee" degrees in my book and this 12 month is in my opinion such one. As posted above, some people have degrees that put them in direct care of people in general such as pysychology but having a BS in say electrical engineering or music doesn't prepare them well enough for a tough nursing program. Being well informed or misinformed has nothing to do with it, this is just my opinion after almost 30 years of nursing, I don't like it and never will. You don't see MDs cutting their medical school in half just so there can be more doctors out there. We as nursing professional should expect the same. This is just a bandaid approach at fixing a severe nursing shortage and will eventually bite us in the butt down the road. Now, don't get me wrong there will be a majority of people who will do very well in this type of "fast" approach to nursing and a few will slip through that have no business in nursing but time will tell. Remember, this IS ONLY my opinion, so I don't need a bunch of people pointing out how "so wrong" I am. Just as before we won't be able to tell, as patients, which are the traditional nurse graduates as oppossed to the "fast track" nurses, but as fellow nurses most will be quite evident. MIke

I disagree that an Accel. BSN is a 'quickee' program.

I think it's just alot of misunderstanding of what these programs usually entail.

There are no shortcuts and no classes that we can omit..that the traditional programs have to take. We also have to put in ALOT of clinical hours..and it's the straight yr. thru. In traditional programs, they get the summers off usually..and even if some take course in the summer..it's not the same full course load that we have to take in the 1 yr. program.

I've taken basically all the science prereqs, and even more than what many traditional programs in my area offer.

If you look at school sites that offer 1yr (many 14-16 mos.) Accel BSN, with the actual requirements and curriculum..you will see how much is required to even GET IN to the program. We are not 'skipping' any classes.

I got my BA in psych..but even people that I know who got BAs in other fields..still spent more time getting their science prereqs before they even applied to an Accel. program.

So basically, if I count the 2 yrs I've been working on my science courses (post BA), the BSN I will get (hopefully) would have taken me LONGER than 1 yr.

I don't understand some think it's a quickee or short cut.

If I look at most traditional nursing programs and my courses I've taken and curriculum for the next yr..it's basicall the SAME thing.

It's just that in a traditional program..it's more SPACED out..they get the summers off..and not as long hours in classess.etc. In the 1 yr program it's recommended that we don't work.

So I'm quitting my job and living with family to help me out. I can sacrifice this for a year..since I've been saving money.

I wouldn't have been able to do this sacrifice in 2 yr traditional program, which are often full time also..so I couldn't work during the day.

Even if I got in the 2yr program..I"ve ALREADY taken ALL the General ED and science courses..so it would be a waste of my time & money to spend 2 yrs in a program where I could only take certain classes anyway (nursing/clinical) since the others would be Repeats.

Plus...many of the traditional ADN programs in my area don't accept part time schedule students..so I may be forced to repeat those general courses (math, science, history, etc.)..and it's just a waste of my money. I got good grades in most of those and I don't think repeating them would make me a better nurse.

Also, many of those traditional ADN programs have 3-5 yr waiting lists just to get in..at least in my area (tri state NY/NJ/CT).

The traditional BSN...many don't even accept second degree students..so I couldn't just go in on a part time basis and take whatever courses I needed.

So I think the Accel. BSN is perfect for students who ALREADY have taken many of the general requirements - since trad. ADN programs do NOT JUST

include core nursing and clinicals.

Also, in the vast majority of the Accel. programs..they will NOT even accept students WITHOUT the science prereqs such as AP 1 & 11, Chemistry, Microbiology, Organic Chemistry (some programs), Bioethics..etc...

The few that do accept students w/o these science courses...the students have to take them during the program..BUT these programs would then take longer than 1 yr..sometimes 2 yrs.

So in the end..it's all basically the same type of curriculum we are completeing..whether traditional or Accelerated.

There are no shortcuts that I can see..and the Accel. is a tough and stressful program..since it involves ALOT of hours during the year. It's just that it's not SPACED out like the traditional program.