Nursing Insurance and Union

PMHNP10 · Jan 11, 2006

Hello, all!!
I still yet to get myself my own nursing insurance (malpractice??)..I know that it's always best to get one for yourself since your employers insurance is not enough to protect you incase of a suit. When I was a student I bought mine through NSO and I only paid $20.00/year...Now that I have my RN license I'd like to know which one is the best to get (reasonable and well recommended)...Any ideas where I can find these insurance info???
Also, the hospital I'll be working in has a mandatory union membership for all the RN's. I'm not quite familiar with these Unions...can someone explain it to me..How do they work? Disadvantage and disadvantage?? Also, I think their fee is around $80-98/month...does this sound reasonable? This union is thru California Nurses Association.Your feedback is much appreciated.
Thanks:)

I'd encourage you to do a search on both of these topics because they are 2 of the more popular discussed topics on the message board--like to the point of ad nauseam for some (possibly only adn vs bsn is the only dead horse beaten more).

I'm personally a supporter of the CNA because they got the ratios passed and fought Arnold to keep them law, and IMHO that is beyond huge. But in general, unions are only as good as they are effective (ie. weak unions are horrible).

As for malpractice insurance, it totally depends on how concerned (or not concerned) you are about being named in a litigation/malpractice suit--some swear by it; some say in a lawsuit, they won't go after the low waged nurse, and some say lawyers go after nurses with insurance because they now have a few more $$$ behind their name. Best to just do the searches and research of these very important subjects. And get ready for the arguments to ensue, cause often emotion follows these 2 subjects.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2006

I have attended two different Nursing and the Law seminars over the past 10 years and both speakers advocated NOT carrying malpractice insurance under certain circumstances. Both were lawyers. Reason: if the people filing the lawsuit know you have malpractice insurance you are going to be named on the lawsuit. When people sue they go after the people with the money and an insurance company has money. Very few people (and lawyers) will sue just to make a point. They can make a point much better by going to the police and reporting you for a crime or asking the state board to yank your license. The lawyers, if anyone, want to get paid for their time and effort in taking on a case. If there is no money to be gotten, the case isn't going to go much of anywhere. When people sue they are looking for money. Don't believe everything you see on TV and in the movies because that isn't the reality (although it makes for good stories). There are only a handful of insurance companies that specialize in nursing malpractice insurance and they have restrictions on what they will pay out in the event of a judgment against you. I tried to get coverage through my homeowner's insurance and they refused. Also, read the contracts on the nursing malpractice policies. If you have failed to follow a hospital policy that results in a malpractice against you, the insurance company can deny your claim in some instances. Then where are you going to be? Do you follow all your hospital's policies to the letter? I stopped carrying malpractice insurance years ago, but I was working med/surg, IV therapy, and in the nursing homes.

I worked at a hospital that had the CA Nurses Association as their union. The CNA has a whole branch of people working for them who are union experts. They are like any other union. A group of us RNs went to a meeting between the union rep and the hospital when the nurses had a grievance about a no overtime policy without prior approval. Nurses were complaining that they had no time to get all their charting done during a shift and the supervisors were routinely refusing to approve the overtime needed to get it done. I have to tell you that the union rep from CNA was not a nurse and acted like any union rep. A lot of us nurses sat in stunned silence as this union rep from the CNA told us that when our shift ended at 3:30pm, 7:30am, or 11:30am, "Ladies, just pick up your purses and leave". I will never forget that. He wasn't the least bit concerned that we weren't getting our charting done. What a lesson I learned that day about my nurses association and their union. Their job is to know your union contract from the first line to the last and that is what they go by. Once you are working under a union contract both sides are bound by the written words of that contract--end of story. It protects you from any mishandling by the hospital because they have to have a slue of paperwork to discipline and fire you. But, it also protects the hospital in that they can tend to start enforcing hospital rules and policies against you (like the overtime thing that came up where I worked). The union contract is treated like a Bible and is consulted before anyone does anything with an employee. By the way, we HAD to all join the CNA, therefore the ANA. It was in the union contract. Have you seen what the yearly dues are for the ANA?

Let me just say that the union was voted in at the hospital where I was working after a big nurses strike which was for very valid reasons. The hospital was not giving the nurses any raises, no health insurance, no holidays, no shift differential, horrible staffing ratios and enforcing mandatory work on other shifts when there was no staff. It was a real rats nest. The hospital was in a rural, isolated area and there was no where else for the nurses to work unless they moved to another area. So the hospital kind of held the reins of power and were abusing it. Now, think. If getting a union is what it took to force the administration into treating their nursing staff halfway decently, I would think twice about working at a place like that. Unless the original administration is long gone, you are basically in a situation where it's you (the nurses) against the administrators. That's not a real good situation for any business because it sets up animosity between the two groups.

allnurses Guide · Jan 11, 2006

I have attended two different Nursing and the Law seminars over the past 10 years and both speakers advocated NOT carrying malpractice insurance under certain circumstances. Both were lawyers. Reason: if the people filing the lawsuit know you have malpractice insurance you are going to be named on the lawsuit. When people sue they go after the people with the money and an insurance company has money. Very few people (and lawyers) will sue just to make a point. They can make a point much better by going to the police and reporting you for a crime or asking the state board to yank your license. The lawyers, if anyone, want to get paid for their time and effort in taking on a case. If there is no money to be gotten, the case isn't going to go much of anywhere. When people sue they are looking for money. Don't believe everything you see on TV and in the movies because that isn't the reality (although it makes for good stories). There are only a handful of insurance companies that specialize in nursing malpractice insurance and they have restrictions on what they will pay out in the event of a judgment against you. I tried to get coverage through my homeowner's insurance and they refused. Also, read the contracts on the nursing malpractice policies. If you have failed to follow a hospital policy that results in a malpractice against you, the insurance company can deny your claim in some instances. Then where are you going to be? Do you follow all your hospital's policies to the letter? I stopped carrying malpractice insurance years ago, but I was working med/surg, IV therapy, and in the nursing homes.
I worked at a hospital that had the CA Nurses Association as their union. The CNA has a whole branch of people working for them who are union experts. They are like any other union. A group of us RNs went to a meeting between the union rep and the hospital when the nurses had a grievance about a no overtime policy without prior approval. Nurses were complaining that they had no time to get all their charting done during a shift and the supervisors were routinely refusing to approve the overtime needed to get it done. I have to tell you that the union rep from CNA was not a nurse and acted like any union rep. A lot of us nurses sat in stunned silence as this union rep from the CNA told us that when our shift ended at 3:30pm, 7:30am, or 11:30am, "Ladies, just pick up your purses and leave". I will never forget that. He wasn't the least bit concerned that we weren't getting our charting done. What a lesson I learned that day about my nurses association and their union. Their job is to know your union contract from the first line to the last and that is what they go by. Once you are working under a union contract both sides are bound by the written words of that contract--end of story. It protects you from any mishandling by the hospital because they have to have a slue of paperwork to discipline and fire you. But, it also protects the hospital in that they can tend to start enforcing hospital rules and policies against you (like the overtime thing that came up where I worked). The union contract is treated like a Bible and is consulted before anyone does anything with an employee. By the way, we HAD to all join the CNA, therefore the ANA. It was in the union contract. Have you seen what the yearly dues are for the ANA?
Let me just say that the union was voted in at the hospital where I was working after a big nurses strike which was for very valid reasons. The hospital was not giving the nurses any raises, no health insurance, no holidays, no shift differential, horrible staffing ratios and enforcing mandatory work on other shifts when there was no staff. It was a real rats nest. The hospital was in a rural, isolated area and there was no where else for the nurses to work unless they moved to another area. So the hospital kind of held the reins of power and were abusing it. Now, think. If getting a union is what it took to force the administration into treating their nursing staff halfway decently, I would think twice about working at a place like that. Unless the original administration is long gone, you are basically in a situation where it's you (the nurses) against the administrators. That's not a real good situation for any business because it sets up animosity between the two groups.

Lots of good points here, thanks.

I don't carry extra insurance, I'm insured through my hospital and I've seen examples of it working very well.

I also will never join a union.

There are many threads on these two subjects here on allnurses - doing a search is a good idea.

Best wishes.

steph

hipab4hands · Jan 12, 2006

My CNA union dues are $80 per month. So that is about the going rate.

As far as insurance is concern, I don't carry any. I really don't have any assets to go after anyway. When patients have threaten to sue in the past, I've told them if they want 100% of nothing, go ahead and try.

No takers so far (evil grin)