Need to Vent

  1. I don't see much activity on this board, but there must be some nursing educators/instructors out there. We have a situation at the school I teach for. One of the students is very incompetant. She has been placed on clinical, safety, care plan probation. But rarely does this result in dismissal from program--it is actually a joke among the students because they know it probably won;t amount to anything.

    This student is a tech at an area hosp. and is like a bull in a china shop--she thinks she knows it all. But when it comes to any nursing interventions, she can't even make a bed correctly. She has a personal vendetta against one of my co-workers. This teacher is excellent. She is very knowledgable and caring. She works hard to make sure the students are safe and knowledgable during clinical. This student has focused in on her--because she was the first to place her on probation. (It could just have easily been me in this situation--but the other instructor had her first)

    This student started a petition to get the instructor fired--this inflammed the rest of the students. The petition went nowhere--so now she has filed a greivance with admin about the instructor. I am so sick of the students being able to do whatever they want. We are walking on eggshells because admin wants to keep the census up for the money (all are state funded)

    What kind of nurses are we turning out into the public??? Some of these dangerous students will be able to pass boards because they have test taking skills. There have been several times I refused to sign a final evaluation because I did not want my name as stating this person met criteria they did not meet. I have dealt with fights in the classrooms, drug use in clinical, plagerism, cheating of all kinds, incompetance from students and staff at times, and one time had my life threatened by a student who was dismissed from the program because of patient abuse. (I was 8 mo pregnant at the time). The lack of respect I see in the classroom to all instructors is distressing. How can we help a nursing shortage with this behavior that is being tolerated.

    I wish I could say that it was due to a certain type of student, but I teach in a rural area and a large metropol. area and the results and behaviors are the same. I would love to hear from other instructors to see if it is occuring elsewhere.

    If you managed to read this to the end--thanks for letting me vent

  2. Visit zumalong profile page

    About zumalong

    Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 395; Likes: 56
    Specialty: 22 year(s) of experience in surgical, neuro, education


  3. by   dianacs
    Just wondering, is it the younger students engaging in this kind of behavior or is it across the age range? I would think that the school would want to avoid tarnishing its reputation by not putting up with (and eventually sending out into the workforce, for that matter) dangerous and/or incompetent students.
  4. by   NurzofFaith
    I am not a nursing instructor, so I can only imagine the crap you have had to endure from students. I am a student, who since entering the nursing program 2 years ago have seen first hand the crap classmates continually pull and expect the instructors to either excuse or overlook.

    I feel the students have more rights than the instructors and this isnt all together a good thing. Students should have the right to be treated fairly, but so should instructors. I think race, religion and gender of both the students and instructors should not be an issue. I really feel that the instructors should have the ability to *weed* out those that dont comply with the nursing program rules or college policies. (dont flame me for this one ) My program states in the beginning of each syllabus the rules and what will result if safety,attendance rules, etc arent followed. I can honestly say as you posted, that these rules are rarely followed and it is a joke amongst students. Its almost a dare to them!

    As a student, I have seen cheating, lying, unsafe practice in clinicals, unprofessionalism, (that would make you cringe) and a lot more. I am frustrated and fed up! These classmates will be graduating and entering the nursing profession just as I will, but sadly they will not represent nurses in a positive light. Myself and several classmates feel our program director is the puppet master and the instructors the helpless, frustrated puppets. She has allowed so much to go on, and expected the instructors to deal with it. I have to say I side with the instructors and think a zero tolerance approach needs to be implemented, sounds harsh I know, BUT I paid for this education and because of a few buttheads, I feel cheated when my instructors are babysitting or dealing with verbal confrontations. They should be helping me to grow and learn!

    I know in life people are different, thank God for that, but the patient is the one we should all be working toward taking care of, not the personality problems of grown adults with ego issues! What kind of nurse will this student make? If she has no foundation with which to build on she is useless to both the profession and to the patient!

    I know this is long, I guess the post and the thought of all the crap has just really bothered me in the past 2 years! Lastly, its pretty bad when my classmates are taking bets on who will and who will not be eaten alive in the real world upon graduation and passing NCLEX. Also I think if people knew that my classmates feel some of us arent competent, would they want us taking care of them? I think not and who could blame them!

    My advice would be, stick to your guns as an instructor. You should expect the highest from your students and those students will work hard to attain your respect and reach those goals! Maybe a tag team approach is the best way to go with this student, maybe a conference with all the instructors and her. Best of luck...I think instructors have to be part saint to put up with so much crap!

  5. by   tigger2sassy
    have been out of nursing school for 18 years-- i have seen a lot of new graduate nurses come and go over the years-- i must say that i have begun to wonder myself what kind of nurses are being turned out these days-- i guess i am from the old school-- had to work my tail off to get where i am today-- i honestly don't know how some of these people passed state boards-- and yet some of them think they know it all-- my instructor (although now retired) had the greatest philosophy-- "i can be your worst enemy or your best friend"-- this she stuck with throughout the years-- thank god for that-- she turned a nervous wreck into a nurse when she got ahold of me-- she was the type that could intimidate even those former students whenever she came into the facility for clinicals-- i now understand what she taught me after so many years-- i have nothing but the utmost love and respect for her--all i can say is i hope that i have made her as proud of me today as i am proud of my nursing ethics-- so here's to mrs. dismang-- wherever you are, i salute you-- i still remember everything you taught me
  6. by   betts
    Why not initiate a petition for the removal of this student? Sounds as if it's a sure thing on their dismissal.
    As a DON, I have many inservices to give and if anyone present disrupts the class they are discharged until they can show competence in the text of the inservice and without pay until they do so.
    It's also my obligation; and ethical, too report same to the State Health Professions Bureau which anyone may do with total anonymity.
  7. by   fergus51
    What do the other instructors think about this situation? Seems to me the only way to get anything done would be if you all got together and went to admin. Don't you have the right as a clinical instructor to fail students?
  8. by   micro

    it is nice to hear from a nursing let people know what is like from your side.............would love to know about teaching nurses.........but yikes.....the down side..........

    you are so right.........students shouldn't be drummed out of program just cause.....

    but give me a have to study, burn midnight ooil and there are expectations.............

    yes, if I am on the other side of the bedrail.........what kind of nurse is taking care of me.........

    not someone who is just a good test taker.......cause I am not a test!!!!!

    zumalong, keep on teaching and let us know what happens........

    no answers, just support and a pat on the shoulders from here to there
  9. by   zumalong
    Update---the 3 students involved tried to have a greivance meeting against the instructor. They did not follow chain of command, so it has not gone anywhere yet.

    What is so difficult is this one dangerous trouble maker is going to be allowed to graduate. We were told to treat her with kid gloves and make sure if we watch her in clinical, that we don't go into her patient's room without another witness!!! Can you believe this garbage.

    I went into nursing because I love helping others. I still worry whenever I leave the unit that I forgot something and inadvertantly harmed a patient. When I began teaching, I tried to bring my accountability to my students. But some of these students coming through have no sensitivity, accountability, or respect for anyone. It is very scary.

    All I can say is that the agencies that are hiring new grads really should contact the instructors to see what exactly they are hiring. This is one student I will never give a reference to, or even sign her final evaluation--because this says I feel she is competant to be a nurse.

    Watch your loved ones when they are sick!!!!
  10. by   4XNURSE

    my wife keeps telling me i need to choose my battles. Would you want this student to be your childs nurse? Is this student going to be safe? i don't get the impression that she is, from what you have said. Can you, and your fellow instructors, live with the knowledge that you graduated this student?

    I taught for 2.4 years at a school like the one you are at. I was once forced to write a letter appologizing for something i didn't do, just to keep a student happy.

    I drew the line, however when one of the students, who wasn't going to be a stellar nurse, cheated. I reported it, forced the issue, and the student ended up being kicked out. The admin. wasn't pleased, but I got the support of all of the nursing faculty. I don't regret a moment of the grief I went through.

    You have my sympathy. That is a hard decision to make.

    just my $ .02

  11. by   zumalong
    The only saving grace is that if the instructors refuse at the end of the program to sign the student's final evaluation--chances are she will never receive her card to take boards.

    I can't change the institution--our program is an extension of a large state college, but I can know that I did the right thing by keeping tabs of all the things done and not sign my name to anything unless I truly feel it is accurate. It is disgusting that the rights of instructors come last.

    I stay in this environment because the majority are not like this student, most have never followed through with anything in their lives. They come from underprivliged areas. They are very caring and intelligent. The program is the impetuous to get them out of poverty. This is why I teach.

    Thanks for everyone's input.
  12. by   semstr
    As a nurse educator myself, I know what you mean!!
    Although our education-system is different here (diploma-nurse is a high as a RN can get, till now), we have the same problems!
    Had all the things you wrote about, drugs, pregnancies, treads against myself and my family etc. Other collegues too.
    One other problem here is, that our students our very well organized with the unions. Now, that is something really special!!
    Example? well, this week is Easter, Eastermonday is a national holiday here, so extra pay or freetime. Our students (not the 1. year ones, they are not working holidays) can work that day. Now the union says, if our students work on a holiday, they can get 2 days off, because the RNs get 150% pay!!
    So, end of the song of course, they all got off Easter-monday (that's what they wanted from the beginning, a 3 days weekend), becuase the wards all said, why should we give them 2 days off?

    This is just one of the many, many stories I can tell here.
    I could write a book about cheating and exams!!
    Still, I really like to teach, even if there are just 5 or 6 from 30 who I reach, it is worth it!!
    Take care and happy Easter, Renee
  13. by   4XNURSE

    I salute you! IMO you are in it for the right reason. I hope all goes well in this situation. Consider yourself hugged - [[ U ]]

  14. by   kerenl
    Well, I must say I am glad I don't teach at your school... where I teach, a student can be wxpelled for having an inapropiate attitude, which means, if I as a teacher think the student is not fit to be a nurse because of his/her attitudes, it is enough. if a stuident failed 2 clinicals he is out. I'm not sure how your system works, but it sounds like you are having a rough time... hang on and do your best!