greet n meet/cheese n wine

[Tookie]

Isnt it great a forum for Aussie - feel like l am on an adventure again

So lets see whose is on the board

Lets all check in and see who can, may contribute - please any lurkers come and talk y us

Also honorary Aussies welcome to contribute and ask questions make comments - I am sure this forum will habe all sorts of discussions -

So l will strt at this wine and chees night/ greet and meet

I am Sandra

Trained at Preincess Alexandra Hospital - Graduated 31 years ago (am very ancient)

Currently working in Aged care as Education Coordinator (Div 1 RN)

Live in the North East of Victoria on a border town

Love my work and people l work with

hate the system in Aged care where there is totally not enough funds - or you have to justify every single penny

Beleive in the ANF ( hope no feathers are ruffle with that)

Cant spell well - as you may have notivced with my typing

Love being a nurse and an Aussie.

Do you think that will eet the ball rolling

So OK Aussies - check in and say a litttle about yourself - Maybe we wont just natter maybe we will learn and also support the students coming through - cause they will look after me a 30 + yerars and l'm not going to be easy.

Again thanks for the forum

Sandra

[Koalablue]

Hi all,

Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth and some info about me I am doing my BN at la Trobe in Wodonga. This is my first semester, although because I have a previous degree I have entered straight into the second year of the course. So far I am loving it, but am also worried about how prepared I will be when I finish next year.

I originally started nursing in 1989 at Princess Alex. in Brisbane (but dropped out in '91 and sat the EN exam) so I have a little experience of both hospital and non/hospital training. Frankly, I reckon the hospital based training gives a much better grounding in `real' nursing, like all the practical stuff we actually have to do each day. In my Uni course I am going to get two days a week clinical practice. As far as I can see, I had just as much `book learning' (and of pretty much the same subjects) at the PAH, but about 10 times the practical experience - that just *has* to be better!

I'd like to see a combination of both really - full-time regular work in a hospital (with the accompanying pay cheque) with time out for a few weeks here and there for lectures as we did with hospital based training, but with a degree at the end like we get with the Uni.

I wonder how many more people would go into nursing if they had the regular pay that we used to get? Six weeks into my Uni course I am *so* struggling with money it's not funny. And it's not that easy to get part-time work that fits in with the course schedule.

Anyway, I hope to go into NICU when I am done. Well, I think I do! Don't know that much about it really, but it intrigues me

I think I would like to go work in the States too one day - don't know much about that either! (hmmm...starting to wonder about myself lol)

Good to see an Aussie thread.....

Rebecca

[NurseRachy]

Koalablue- Welcome, another LaTrobe University student here!!! Bundoora - 3rd year Bachelor Nursing/Bachelor Public Health - good luck with the studies!! (PS hope your nursing course has better organisation than we do!!)

[Koalablue]

NurseRachy

I have to say organisation is not one of their strong points lol. Nice tiny campus though, so at least we all get to be confused in a small group Good coffee too, which is always useful.

Got a loverly, very nice lecturer for General pathophysiology and pharmacology - only one problem.........he has the thickest indian accent and no-one can understand a word he says lol! Though once we worked out that `implamshon and poz' stood for inflammation and pus things became a little clearer Now if we could just figure out the other 4000 words......

Good luck with your studies too....

Rebecca

[Rapheal]

Oh you Aussie's have wine and cheese at your site. You guys rule (pours self glass of wine, puts feet up for a moment). I like it here.

[Evie]

Hihi Everyone :-)

It has been great to read all your differing opinions about hospital training vs university. This matter is quite pertinent to my situation because I'm at uni at the moment. I'm in my 2nd year at QUT in Brisbane and I must say that I absolutely love it. Before starting nursing I did 2 years of a dual science/arts degree and found the uncertainty of career outcomes frustrating. I'd always had an interest in health and so decided that nursing was the career for me.

So far I am not sure about whether I think uni or hospital training is better - I think that both have their positive and negative sides. I like the fact that you graduate with a degree because from what I have read and heard from tutors it has done a lot to enhance nursing as a profession. On the other hand, it *is* appalling, as some of you have mentioned, that we graduate with only 20 weeks of clinical experience. I had my first clinical placement right at the end of first year (last November) and it was strange having to wait that long before we even had an insight into what nursing was really like (nb. an insight only!). Having said that, I think we would have been underprepared had we gone out earlier. I went out and did AIN work in aged care at the earliest opportunity and I felt that it gave me an advantage over some of the other students I was with on prac because I had mastered the very basic nursing skills, including the most obvious and important skill of communication. I was then able to focus more on improving my observational and assessment skills and feel at ease with patient-nurse contact which may have otherwise been a herdle initially.

I do not agree at this (early!) stage that nursing should move back into hospital-based training only, but think that splitting the time equally between hospital and uni would be more beneficial, because it is important to master the theory AND the practice. This morning I had a unilab (like a prac class) which is run once a week for 5 weeks of semester, 1.5 hrs each - this is where we learn our clinical skills. We get to practice each skill once, and the next time is out on the ward - SCARY. Some of my fellow students were aghast when they were told we would not be getting paid for prac - life is difficult as a student and having to leave your part-time job for full-time unpaid work really requires careful financial planning. But I figure that if QLD nurses are still struggling with our (seemingly broke) state government - we are the lowest paid nurses in Australia after all - then there is no way we are going to get paid for our training!

Anyway, after I graduate at the end of next year I want to move to Toowoomba (about 120km west, up on the range.. aah :)) for my grad program. I am so ready to leave the hustle and bustle of city life (albeit only Brisbane-paced)! One of the most attractive things about nursing to me is knowing that my skills will be transportable. I love living in QLD and we have some beautiful provincial cities and towns (T'ba being one of the loveliest!). Ultimately, I want my career to take me overseas while I am young and unattached! Can't wait to explore US & Canada. I'd love to hear from any Aussie nurses living o/s about what it's really like. The areas of nursing that interest me are ICU and CCU/HDU etc..

That's it for me today!

:) Evie :)

[joannep]

G'day everyone, just found this site, and I have been posting for years! I currently work in a satellite haemodialysis unit in Melbourne, and I just love it.

I am a hospital trained nurse (Queen Victoria Medical Centre, Melbourne, 1982). I completed postgrad qualifications in Operating Room nursing and worked in the OR for 15 year.

I went to uni and completed a BN (post reg). In 1999 I changed to renal nursing and completed postgrad qualifications in Renal Nursing. With the support of my husband and two children I have just finished and graduated from a Master of Nursing Leadership from Australian Catholic University.

So, I have trained in the hospital system and have completed post-grad studies to masters level at university.

As far as hospital based training versus a university degree, I will say that you are stuck with the system that is in place at the time you wish to study, whether you agree with that system or not.

At the time that university courses were implemented the recommendation was for a 4 year course, to enable more clinical hours to be scheduled, however, in its wisdom the federal government refused to fund the 4th year so it was compacted to 3 years. Nearly every graduate has felt that they have lacked sufficient supervised clinical hours before graduation, but the fault is not the ANC, or the ANF, they wanted the 4th year.

The women in my family have all been nurses. My grandmother, who graduated in the UK in 1930's, my mother, who graduated in Australia in the 1950's, myself, who graduated in the 1980's, and my daughter who is currenlty studying nursing (no she was not brain washed from birth!). Each one of us trained under different conditions, and with different standards of expertise.

When I commenced my training in 1979, I would not have found it acceptable to be trained to the standard of my grandmother or my mother, so why do so many nurses think that the standard or type of training of 20 years ago is the bench mark for nurse education today. Times have changed, technology has changed and we live in a far different society. My daughter would never find it acceptable to do a hospital based course, she comes from a generation that considers a university degree a primary qualification.

I totally agree that there is a lack of supervised clinical practice, but I have no doubt that there will continue to be changes to nurse education and hopefully these changes will incorporate more clinical hours, but I can't see the government agreeing to fund a 4th year. So the best we can do at the moment is to improve the graduate year programs so that new graduates feel they have adequate support and are not left high and dry when they hit the wards.

I feel like I've just written a mouthful on the subject. It's time for a coffee break and banana muffin.

Hooroo

Joanne

[joannep]

G'day everyone, just found this site, and I have been posting for years! I currently work in a satellite haemodialysis unit in Melbourne, and I just love it.

I am a hospital trained nurse (Queen Victoria Medical Centre, Melbourne, 1982). I completed postgrad qualifications in Operating Room nursing and worked in the OR for 15 year.

I went to uni and completed a BN (post reg). In 1999 I changed to renal nursing and completed postgrad qualifications in Renal Nursing. With the support of my husband and two children I have just finished and graduated from a Master of Nursing Leadership from Australian Catholic University.

So, I have trained in the hospital system and have completed post-grad studies to masters level at university.

As far as hospital based training versus a university degree, I will say that you are stuck with the system that is in place at the time you wish to study, whether you agree with that system or not.

At the time that university courses were implemented the recommendation was for a 4 year course, to enable more clinical hours to be scheduled, however, in its wisdom the federal government refused to fund the 4th year so it was compacted to 3 years. Nearly every graduate has felt that they have lacked sufficient supervised clinical hours before graduation, but the fault is not the ANC, or the ANF, they wanted the 4th year.

The women in my family have all been nurses. My grandmother, who graduated in the UK in 1930's, my mother, who graduated in Australia in the 1950's, myself, who graduated in the 1980's, and my daughter who is currenlty studying nursing (no she was not brain washed from birth!). Each one of us trained under different conditions, and with different standards of expertise.

When I commenced my training in 1979, I would not have found it acceptable to be trained to the standard of my grandmother or my mother, so why do so many nurses think that the standard or type of training of 20 years ago is the bench mark for nurse education today. Times have changed, technology has changed and we live in a far different society. My daughter would never find it acceptable to do a hospital based course, she comes from a generation that considers a university degree a primary qualification.

I totally agree that there is a lack of supervised clinical practice, but I have no doubt that there will continue to be changes to nurse education and hopefully these changes will incorporate more clinical hours, but I can't see the government agreeing to fund a 4th year. So the best we can do at the moment is to improve the graduate year programs so that new graduates feel they have adequate support and are not left high and dry when they hit the wards.

I feel like I've just written a mouthful on the subject. It's time for a coffee break and banana muffin.

Hooroo

Joanne

[gwenith, BSN, RN]

Hi - I am a brisbanite and I trained in a hosptial - Princess Alexandra to be exact. I have been a nurse educator in a hospital before university training and have been a nurse educator/ staff development officer post university training. I have a post graduate degree in ICU as well as a degree in nurse education.

Pro and cons of University vs Hospital training.

Hospital training

high clinical experience

intense exposure to "hidden curriculum" (socialisation yes ma'am no ma'am)

informal information network allowed learning of undocumented aspects of care (the stuff that is not in the books)

"theory /practice gap" was able to be discussed directly and with relevance

Students - because they wore thier "levels" in the open on thier caps had graduated expectations of achievement - you did not expect a first year nurse to be as proficient as a third year nurse

We recruited high achievers who were unable to afford university. Some of our BEST were nurses who came into the profession by default.

Student nurses were employed full time and had a heavy study load at the end of the three years they were near burn out

There was cognisance that nursing= life long learning. You were expected to go on and "collect" certificates in specialties

Unviersity Training

low clinical experience

socialisation via the hidden curriculum now post graduate ? has led to increased activism

Theory/practice gap poorly adressed

Most texts are american - do not fully cover the Australian nurses job description (Yeah I would LOOOVE to do a research paper on that one)

The undocumented and underdocumented aspects of care must be learnt

Nurses enter the workforce at one level and therefor inappropriate expectations are placed upon them

University trainees are supernumery - a not uncommon problem arising form this was diminished sense of accountability to holistic care.

Expectation of lifelong learning has diminished. NO expectation to "collect ceritficates" instead there is an increased expectation to "stay where you are"

Many of the above points are multifactoral and not just about university vs hospital. i deliberately did not include the change in social status that having a degree was supposed to confer as I am unsure if it did change our status inside or outside the profession.

[gwenith, BSN, RN]

Hi - I am a brisbanite and I trained in a hosptial - Princess Alexandra to be exact. I have been a nurse educator in a hospital before university training and have been a nurse educator/ staff development officer post university training. I have a post graduate degree in ICU as well as a degree in nurse education.

Pro and cons of University vs Hospital training.

Hospital training

high clinical experience

intense exposure to "hidden curriculum" (socialisation yes ma'am no ma'am)

informal information network allowed learning of undocumented aspects of care (the stuff that is not in the books)

"theory /practice gap" was able to be discussed directly and with relevance

Students - because they wore thier "levels" in the open on thier caps had graduated expectations of achievement - you did not expect a first year nurse to be as proficient as a third year nurse

We recruited high achievers who were unable to afford university. Some of our BEST were nurses who came into the profession by default.

Student nurses were employed full time and had a heavy study load at the end of the three years they were near burn out

There was cognisance that nursing= life long learning. You were expected to go on and "collect" certificates in specialties

Unviersity Training

low clinical experience

socialisation via the hidden curriculum now post graduate ? has led to increased activism

Theory/practice gap poorly adressed

Most texts are american - do not fully cover the Australian nurses job description (Yeah I would LOOOVE to do a research paper on that one)

The undocumented and underdocumented aspects of care must be learnt

Nurses enter the workforce at one level and therefor inappropriate expectations are placed upon them

University trainees are supernumery - a not uncommon problem arising form this was diminished sense of accountability to holistic care.

Expectation of lifelong learning has diminished. NO expectation to "collect ceritficates" instead there is an increased expectation to "stay where you are"

Many of the above points are multifactoral and not just about university vs hospital. i deliberately did not include the change in social status that having a degree was supposed to confer as I am unsure if it did change our status inside or outside the profession.

[joannep]

Hi everyone,

I think there is a definite correlation between the move from hospital based specialty certificates to postgraduate diploma's and the current shortage of specialist nurses. For those of you who are not familiar with hospital based training; a hospital based post graduate certificate was funded by the hospital and you were paid full time, even for your study days. They were difficult to get into. I remember sitting a 3 hour exam, and having an interview with a 4 member panel, with 50 other applicants to get into a theatre course that had only 6 places that was being run by a major melbourne hospital. When I found out I had been offered a place I was thrilled. We graduated from this course having scrubbed for everything and being considered a senior member of staff. Grad-dip graduates appear to be educated to a novice standard (at least this is how they feel), the number of clinical hours they experience is less than half what I experienced. The students I have spoken to feel really ripped off regarding clinical experience, especially after paying so much money. A grad-dip is around $10,000 here in Melbourne, and while there are a number of scholarship's available, they don't cover anywhere near the cost. It is interesting that one of the major public hospitals here in melbourne is offering a hospital based renal course, that costs a minimal amount and fully articulates with a grad dip from one of the universities, if you choose to persue a grad dip qualification.

Maybe the trend of new graduates to "stay where you are" could be related to their need to pay off their hex bill, and their reluctance to persue postgraduate education because they still haven't paid off their debt, or don't want to be in that much debt again. In the days of hospital based training we had no such requirement and could walk out the door after finishing our time and be sure of getting a job elsewhere. What do you think?

ps. gwenith I love Lazarus Long too

[joannep]

Hi everyone,

I think there is a definite correlation between the move from hospital based specialty certificates to postgraduate diploma's and the current shortage of specialist nurses. For those of you who are not familiar with hospital based training; a hospital based post graduate certificate was funded by the hospital and you were paid full time, even for your study days. They were difficult to get into. I remember sitting a 3 hour exam, and having an interview with a 4 member panel, with 50 other applicants to get into a theatre course that had only 6 places that was being run by a major melbourne hospital. When I found out I had been offered a place I was thrilled. We graduated from this course having scrubbed for everything and being considered a senior member of staff. Grad-dip graduates appear to be educated to a novice standard (at least this is how they feel), the number of clinical hours they experience is less than half what I experienced. The students I have spoken to feel really ripped off regarding clinical experience, especially after paying so much money. A grad-dip is around $10,000 here in Melbourne, and while there are a number of scholarship's available, they don't cover anywhere near the cost. It is interesting that one of the major public hospitals here in melbourne is offering a hospital based renal course, that costs a minimal amount and fully articulates with a grad dip from one of the universities, if you choose to persue a grad dip qualification.

Maybe the trend of new graduates to "stay where you are" could be related to their need to pay off their hex bill, and their reluctance to persue postgraduate education because they still haven't paid off their debt, or don't want to be in that much debt again. In the days of hospital based training we had no such requirement and could walk out the door after finishing our time and be sure of getting a job elsewhere. What do you think?

ps. gwenith I love Lazarus Long too

[joannep]

Hey Tookie when are you coming to Melbourne to get your hair curled, we can do coffee when you are in town.

Joanne