Should nurses strike? - page 10
Should nurses strike? Would you cross the picket line?:confused:... Read More
Jun 25, '03UntamedSpirit,
I agree with you. My first post was not the best start here. I have since apologized for that comment. I should not have been so crass. I have yet to see anyone apologize for their personal attacks on me.
I disagree with you regarding the abandonment issue. 10 days notice or not, your still walking out the door when you would usually be expected to work and provide care to your pts.
Jun 25, '03Abandonment is not 10 days notice...abandonment is when you walk out of the hospital on your shift and leave your patients unattended to....again, I suggest that you check with your State BON's definition of abandonment. In NY that does not qualify.
As for an apology. I am willing to let bygones be just that, however...others may not and that is their choice......I do not know your age and it is irrelevant to the discussion but your lack of judiciousness in posting topics.......well, it screams young and self righteousness and I will warn you now.....there is no room for the self righteous here. We are supposed to be a group of professionals that are accepting of others opinions, cultures, beliefs, races and creeds. Your stance on striking says anything but acceptance for how others feel. Might I also suggest you try and walk a mile in anothers shoes before you point a finger of accusation at others and scream abandonment. You might make more friends that way and find us a pleasant group of people to share a variety of thoughts, experiences and opinions with.
Jun 25, '03UntamedSpirit,
Right on!!! That is the type of reply I respect. I am 30. I am a professional. Self righteous? I can see how it might seem that way, and maybe I am a little in that regard. I admit I come across strong at times. You have to admit that not all of my posts are that way though.
You also have to admit that others have said worse things to me than I have said. Listen to people on talk radio like Jay Severin. His comments are similar to mine. Strong and to the point. Like him, I welcome disagreement and measured thought out replies.
Sometimes stirring the pot can be good because it stimulates the mind and we can all learn something. I do see a lot of close-minded responses though in this thread.Last edit by bender73 on Jun 25, '03
Jun 25, '03I will address you one more time. A troll is someone who enjoys spurring others on emotionally. I have been a member of numeous message boards over the years and I know the pattern well. A troll, a "good one" knows when to appear semireasonable while still attacking the board. You have not addressed any queries into why nurses might have a bad attitude and what can be done about it. Now that you have been called to the mat, you are appearing as "reasonable," yet still refusing to address real issues. If you do not know that youa re acting as a troll, then I feel badly for you. But this is what youa re doing. Maybe you really believe that you are "debating." And maybe you believe that patting some people on the back is part of debate. For me, debate is exploring issues, not complaining about complaints and blaming whomever is available. I no longer engage in any way with any troll and am making an exception this one time as I am a fairly new member here and want to make my position on trolling known and how I prefer to deal with it. i do not care what other people do or how they view you or me. I am the furthest from going with the flow or wanting to be accepted. I look for healthy debate. All of your tactics point to emotionally charged jabs at nurses and you are backpeddling not because you see the light, rather you want to continue to engage the members of the community.
I choose not to be engaged.
Jun 25, '03Originally posted by spacenurse
I am sorry for insulting anyone. It was not my intention.
Very very sorry!
Hey Are you striking Tenent? You were the one who posted that Tenent article right? when I looked them up, in my state they were the ones responsible for the highest mark up in all ten of the hospitals listed. As high as 700% here.
Do you ahve any insight or interesting articles on them?
Jun 25, '03geek,
Well said, but I disagree. I am not spurring anything I am simply responding to posts.
I think a troll is someone who goes to a forum with the only intention of pissing people off. Saying things that they know will indeed make others angry for the only purpose of...making others angry!!!
I have backed off a little only because I see the emotion here and want to avoid making others too upset...a troll would relish that and continue to say things to further irritate people.
You say that I am not aware I am trolling? Your wrong. I think the last bunch of posts I made were evidence that I am trying to calm things a bit. I have also been busy defending myself from attacks.
Jun 25, '03
Jun 25, '03Oh, and furthermore geek, I have addressed why some nurses might have bad attitudes...sub-par working conditions. Did you not see the mulitple posts in which I agreed with people here?
What to do about it? I stated that as well. Lobby, write to politicians, start a website and promote it, call radio stations and start a debate, etc.. I am tired of repeating myself on that matter.
Jun 25, '03originally posted by bender-"Since I am not management I do not have monthly ratios to give you off the top of my head. Moreover, it varies from floor to floor and shift to shift with the senior RNs carrying more pts it seems than the younger RNs. Remember, I don't work on a floor, I admit pts, follow them for awhile, and roam to different floors. From the boards, I tend to see some RNs with 3-4 pts and some with 6-7 pts. Since I am in Internal Medicine, most of the floors I spend time on are telemetry units or medical floors."
The statement that you are not management and therefore do not know exact numbers makes it difficult to understand how you can condemn people who are stating their assignments are unsafe. I mean if you really don't even know how many patients they are responsible for, how do you know they are just whining and don't really have a valid point? And when patient safety is at risk, we don't have time for websites and lobbying. We need to take care of it ASAP. Sometimes striking is the answer, but it isn't working fast enough. that is why I support strikes, although I think the time has come for legislation to mandate working conditions and staffing, for the safety of the patients and the staff. Maybe you should make it your business to understand what the situation is, before you decide striking isn't a valid solution. BTW, don't you want to know that YOUR patients are being properly cared for?
If you are seeing RNs with 6-7 patients on days I guarantee they have half again as many on off shifts. Not only that but have you ever been responsible for the care of 6-7 patients at a time? I don't mean writing the orders and reviewing the labs. I mean TOTAL care? If not you are comparing apples to oranges. I am certainly not saying your job isn't stressful; in fact most NPs I know are pissed on by their attending MDs and wind up doing all the scut work that used to be reserved for the junior partner or the residents. Now they can get an NP for cheaper, not have to share with a partner, and still get the job done. But hey if that's OK with you, that's your business. It wouldn't be OK with me. And taking care of 6-7 critically ill patients on a medical floor is not my idea of safe nursing care. And these people ARE critically ill-I see more and more vents, drips, monitors etc on the floors than ever before. Those with 3-4 patients are most likely on telemetry floors, and that isn't too bad a ratio but I would like it see it as 2-3 rather than 3-4.
originally posted by bender "This is going to go on and on because very few here seem to want to admit any of their possible faults. Its all or nothing. To those that I have been debating with...you all seem to think that you are all correct and everybody that thinks differently is wrong. There is no middle ground in your debate nor is there anything that I have said that has even made a dent in your thinking. "
I might say the same thing about you.Last edit by RNPD on Jun 25, '03
Jun 25, '03
Jun 25, '03Here is the deal. Please read with an open mind. I will try to sum up my views based on my own personal beliefs as well as what I have learned here thus far.
-I admit that I come across strong and for that I apologize if I am stirring the pot.
-I know that some working conditions for RNs suck. For that, I feel for you and hope things improve. Do what you have to do, just don't strike (my opinion).
-There are a lot of jobs that require long hours and sub-par working conditions and that is just a part of today's world.
-I have had my fair share of tough jobs and know how it feels. I just think there are other ways to go about things.
-It is not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings in any way.
-We are all entitled to our beliefs.
-I am not a troll and don't appreciate name calling.
Jun 25, '03well put and very reasonable bender. We'll agree to disagree on the strike issue. I would appreciate it if you desist with the word "whining" when nurse are voicing legitimate complaints.