Obamacare: Should I get out while I still can?

[TexasAbby]

Hello :) I didn't know exactly where to ask this, but I am very concerned and need some guidance...I am just about to take prerequisites to get into a BSN program. I would really love to be a nurse! And I have been looking forward to getting into the nursing field. However, the Court's ruling on Obama's Healthcare plan has me nervous.

All the nurses I've known/talked to have not had good things to say about the law or how it will affect them. I know Medicaid is very slow to pay and doesn't reimburse doctors/hospitals much of the actual cost, so won't that trickle down to nurses' pay?...Also, the nursing shortage we have ALREADY is bad enough..so won't Obama's new law just make the problem that much worse by adding more people to a system that already desperately needs more nurses?. I'm also concerned that the quality of care will suffer as well (for the patients).. I really need advice on this...I want to be a nurse, but the uncertainty and the possibility of more work with less pay is not at all attractive...its scary!

So my question is this: Should I go ahead with my plans to go to nursing school despite the unsure future? Or should I get out and find a new rewarding career path to take while I still can? Maybe I can wait awhile to see how things play out first?

P.S=I had wanted to eventually be a nurse practitioner (career goal)..And please don't question my desire to be a nurse and my love for what nurses do. I would LOVE to be a nurse, but .I just don't want to go into alot of student debt, work my butt off, and delve into a career when there is so much uncertainty about things such as possible cuts to the pay, and the overall nursing shortage. The way I see it, I'm at a crossroad right now and can take either fork..I just want to make an educated, good decision. All answers and advice are VERY appreciated!! :)

[l3wilso]

It is not about not being able to ask questions, healthcare for all is what the people wanted. Healthcare for all is not what Obama said he would give us. Free healthcare was talked about in the 90s when Clinton was in office. It did not happen. The people went to their elected officials and asked for free health care. Besides if you want personal freedom, do not ask for assistance from the government, this includes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (state), Unemployment, Welfare, etc. These are government programs. Just have the income needed to sustain yourself and your family and you will not have to rely on the government for assistance.

[DoGoodThenGo]

It is not about not being able to ask questions, healthcare for all is what the people wanted. Healthcare for all is not what Obama said he would give us. Free healthcare was talked about in the 90s when Clinton was in office. It did not happen. The people went to their elected officials and asked for free health care. Besides if you want personal freedom, do not ask for assistance from the government, this includes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (state), Unemployment, Welfare, etc. These are government programs. Just have the income needed to sustain yourself and your family and you will not have to rely on the government for assistance.

No, they are all not pure "government programs" in the way you are associating them with a type of welfare.

As one is sure you've noticed funds are removed from your wages and or you pay when filing federal income taxes for FICA, Medicare etc.. These are entitlement programs in that the government takes funds from you in your youth/adult life and in return pays back an annunity payment of sort in your old age and provides for your healthcare at that time as well.

In addition the government from those withdrawal of funds will make payments to your spouse for her/his healthcare and also retirement benefits regardless if they worked a day in their lives or not. The only difference is those whom have worked can choose between their own benefits or their spouses depending upon which is higher. Furthermore one's minor children and widow/widower may also be eligible for survivor benefits upon your death ig yhry meet certain conditions.

Persons currently drawing SS and or those just about to enter on average have and will receive more, much more in benefits than they put into the system. Those from the tail end of the Boomer generation and following will receive benefits currently fixed at about 75% of what they put in and that number is probaly going to decrease as years continue.

This dependency upon government and in some cases could be called *welfare* (payment of benefits to those whom have not directly paid into the system by virtue of marriage and or parental relationship despite the worker paying the same amount in regardless of his or her marital status as a single person), is just what Democrats want and need. If younger Americans were given the option as some Republicans have wanted, to switch their payroll taxes into a private retirement scheme, the entire SS program would collapse. It is that dependent upon younger workers paying into the system in order to support those older/retired that it does not work as a "pay as you go" program otherwise.

[MunoRN, RN]

It is not about not being able to ask questions, healthcare for all is what the people wanted. Healthcare for all is not what Obama said he would give us. Free healthcare was talked about in the 90s when Clinton was in office. It did not happen. The people went to their elected officials and asked for free health care. Besides if you want personal freedom, do not ask for assistance from the government, this includes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (state), Unemployment, Welfare, etc. These are government programs. Just have the income needed to sustain yourself and your family and you will not have to rely on the government for assistance.

We pay into SS and medicaid in order to draw out of it later. Saying that those who use SS and medicare are relying on the government for assistance is like saying I'm relying on my bank for assistance when I pay my bills out of my own bank account.

[MunoRN, RN]

I agree we will definitely see an increase in minor issues with individuals arriving to the ER for service. Remember to smile, medicare will be paying based on that as well. There is nothing that can be done about it. The abuse of anything free is always present. But, healthcare for all is what people asked for.

I think over time we will see that peeple will not abuse it much, but we will also see those that are not sick seriously will only make themselves sick as we see today.

ER's have always been open to anyone, that's been the problem, it's been the one place where those without insurance can go. At least now they have the opportunity to seek the appropriate level of care (which then costs all of us less for the same care).

[NovaeDeArx, RN]

Registered to point this out:

May I kindly note that the user that started the thread has zero posting history outside of this thread. Yellow flag.

He or she posts FUD-filled (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) and information-poor or easily-falsifiable replies to reasonable replies. Red flag.

Once challenged, he or she posts a comprehensive list full of bad information, attempting to sour general perception of the PPACA ("Obamacare"). Yellow flag.

When called out on any of this, he or she falls back on the standard "Well I'm allowed my opinion, AREN'T I???", apparently not understanding the difference between opinions ("I don't much care for Alternative Rock music") and facts ("Alternative Rock is a subgenre of Rock and Roll"). You can't state bad facts that you draw conclusions from, have all your facts debunked, then still defend your conclusion as "Just my opinion stop being un-American by disagreeing with me!!!!". That's bloody ridiculous and "Amanda" is arguing in very bad faith using standard PR techniques. MASSIVE red flag.

Based on his or her posting style, falling back on multiple "trenches" of argument ("I'm just asking questions", then "Here's bad facts to support my conclusions", then "Well it's an opinion, you can't argue with an opinion", and then just dragging out the argument until less than 1 percent of readers will stick to the thread long enough to see him or her made to look foolish...) and general lack of ability to commit to a single viewpoint but instead taking a "throw a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks", I strongly suspect that the parent poster is a politically motivated sockpuppet; a paid-PR poster, or similar.

I make a habit of uncovering these people (and have busted a few on other sites just for laughs or because they annoyed the hell out of everyone and were poisoning any attempt at polite discourse), and after a while you get to recognize a "type" that most shills and sockpuppets fit into, and I'm afraid that my alarm bells were going off after reading the first few posts by this bozo.

Sorry guys, but in all probability you're arguing with someone that can't be convinced simply because they're not even arguing about their own beliefs. He or she is just trying to muddy the waters and increase the overall negative perception of the PPACA. I personally suspect funding by various insurers (who are furious about the bill's limitation of how much "administrative cost" can be extracted by them) or some large hospital organizations (who are furious that they're going to have to start being responsible for their quality of care, not just how much they can get away with billing for). They're willing to spend millions to get public sentiment back on their side, as the long-term difference for them is in the billions of dollars (of pure profit, extracted from consumers and patients).

I'm also sorry to say that it's only going to get worse... Normally this kind of garbage used to only be directed at the "politically interested" few percent of people on large news aggregator websites or special-interest ones such as global warming-related discussion sites. Unfortunately, the tools ("persona management systems", etc) available to people like our friend here have gotten exponentially better in the last 5-10 years, and you're going to have to start dealing with them on much more general-interest sites or less-political specialty sites such as this one.

Sorry about the long rant, but it needed to be said. Happy holidays, friends!

[Solarcableguy]

The individuals on this board that are claiming that there is no nursing shortage need to look up the facts. The facts are that even though there has been a slow down in immediate hiring because of the amount of new nursing graduates does not mean that there is not a massive nursing shortage right around the corner.

The largest generation by population in America is the baby boomers. Years ago the nursing profession and the Healthcare Industry realized that when the baby boomers retired that over that course of their retirement there would be a massive nursing shortage in the future. Because of this, nursing has been promoted as a viable profession for people to have a career that would pay well and have job security. This led to a great deal of people heading into school or back to school to join the profession. Because of the recent recession, the training of new nurses along with delayed retirement of experienced nurses put us slightly ahead of the curve for having new nurses vs. needing new nurses.

With all of that said; the nursing profession has been steadily hiring over the last couple of years. Yes, it may be different in some parts of the country, but overall that is not the case. A much larger nursing shortage is on the horizon. You do not have to be a genius to know this if you look at the laws of economics and numbers in the population. Statistics gathered by locum tenens and the nursing profession will set you straight.

First of all, the average age in the nursing profession is 45 years of age. That's right, 45 years of age! 27% of MDs and Advanced Practice Nurses in areas like Anesthesia are 55 years of age and older. Think about that for a second. Also, there is a predicted 40% increase in surgical procedures requiring an OR suite over the next 10 years. Now think about that for a second and how that relates to hospital and patient needs for every part of a hospital. Do any of you really believe that this so called nursing glut is somehow permanent or in fact just a blip on the screen before the massive shortage arrives? Use your critical thinking skills folks. There will be plenty of jobs for nurses going forward.

Now for pay. Floor nurses will more than likely take a hit to their pay in terms of starting base pays going forward with the exception of some specialties i.e. ICU/ONC due to the new health care bill. There will be a trickle down affect from the lack of reimbursements. On the other hand, since MD pay will go down and many who are over 55 will leave the profession early (there are polls about this); nurses with advanced degrees will likely be in demand for many specialties and their pay will increase. Also, I don't see how primary care doesn't end up being made up of mostly of PAs and NPs over time. Every year new legislation is introduced across America to allow for more NPs to practice autonomously from state to state. Check out what your state allows.

As with any profession, there will be exceptions to the rules and various regions and specialties will pay differently and possibly higher or lower cyclically.

[Solarcableguy]

Massachusetts isn't really a good snapshot of how it will work because of many nurses in Mass being unionized and receiving higher wages and better benefits. Also, in many instances the unions in some states have lobbied for better patient care standards such as maintaining no more than a 4:1 patient to nurse ratio on MedSurg units.

[Katie82, RN]

Obamacare could offer great opportunities for nurses, especially those with advanced degrees or nurse practitioners. The simple fact is that medical facilities will be using more and more NPs as the newly insured enter the system. This will not eliviate the need for the 3-5 years of "primary acute care" experience (hospitals), but I predict nurses will be leaving bedside care earlier to seek jobs outside the hospital as healthcare delivery moves from the current model to one that is more community and outcomes based. for example, I am a Case Manager with a masters in Health Care Management, and see a lot of jobs opening in the CM area as the focus moves to prevention of hospital admissions and readmissions. While I do not believe Obamacare is "the answer" to our health care woes, it will most likely work in nursing's favor.