Is Health Care a Right?

maureeno · Jan 30, 2003

here's a post from last year[sigh-the elections], looks to me like a reason to have the well being of others as a part of self interest.

INCOME INEQUALITY AS PREDICTOR OF HEALTH

I read recently of public health studies, done independently by Stanford and Harvard medical schools, which demonstrated a correlation between income inequality and health. In comparing data across the 50 states, in states with the greatest gap between the richest and poorest there were higher rates of morbidity and mortality. Now before you think, so what's new about that..the study indicated IT WAS NOT ONLY THE POOR in these states who were getting sick and dying; the risk extended across all income groups. The rates of crime, incarceration and unemployment were also correlated to income inequality, as were higher medical costs and higher police costs.

In the United states where wealth disparity is growing faster than even the income gap, 0.01% gained 90% of the 1990's goodies.

Wealth disparity can be a threat to public health, and the health of you and your families. Alarmist? You betcha!

By the way TB in my county is at its highest rates in 30 years; homlessness[and overcrowding in the shelters], poor nutrition and lack of access to health care are considered factors in the increased incidence. This problem will no doubt be solved when we start aiming our Cruise missiles.

Sally_ICURN · Jan 30, 2003

edited by poster

Sally_ICURN · Jan 30, 2003

But since you are not affected by it, do not work under or in it, and have no real stake, then how about NOT trying to offer your fixes, since you evidently don't have a very good understanding of our system.
Uhuh. Well, OUR loss, I'm sure

And this country wonders why we are seen as arrogant by a large portion of the world? Hmm.

Q. · Jan 30, 2003

Wow Maureeno, has it been a year already?

Now that article I can agree with. Sure, TB and other public health concerns rise when there is increased homelessness and overcrowding of shelters. I think we can all agree on that. But building homes for the homeless to prevent the spread of TB to me and my family is not really the answer either. Why not? Well to start with, when would it stop? Part of the transmission of TB and other communicable disease also have alot to due to with handwashing and other hygienic practices that were not utilized in our early colonial period - so even when the earning gap was less, we actually had more incidence of such diseases.

There is absolutely NO way that we can house every homeless person, simply because we can't and shouldn't control every American's spending habits, personal habits and life choices. So, when someone ends up homeless, we build them a house to protect our own azz from getting "infected" from them? In all reality, that solution sounds more elitist than anything I've ever heard any Republican say.

Gromit · Jan 30, 2003

Originally posted by Sally_ICURN
So are you saying that Mr. Bush is the all-knowing? What he says MUST be right? Let me make a note of that.

Gee Sally, like most liberals, you went from "He is Great, though) (which is what TNcanNurse SAID) to saying that what was said was that he is "all knowing").

And people wonder why so many arguments abound! Try putting more words in his mouth!

Gromit · Jan 30, 2003

Originally posted by Sally_ICURN
And this country wonders why we are seen as arrogant by a large portion of the world? Hmm.

Perhaps if the person who gets such joy in criticizing OUR system actually took a little time to understand the system (I have no real problem with the criticism, but criticism from blatant ignorance, well, I think thats a bit much).

And quite honestly, I don't care a whole lot about HOW the rest of the world views us. Arrogant? Perhaps. But then so much of the world looks at us with hatred (or envy turned to hatred-whatever) that I can't really be bothered with trying to please 'em all.

I never claimed ours to be the best, but its not the worst, either. For someone in Canada to browbeat our system, when their OWN is hardly w/o flaws, well, I ask you, isnt THAT arrogance?

Sally_ICURN · Jan 30, 2003

This thread has turned trashy. Here we've got professional NURSES talking complete smack about a portion of our population who cannot afford health insurance. That portion accounts for 14% of the total population...that's 41 MILLION UNINSURED PEOPLE! Some of you are claiming that "these" people should get off their butts and work!, they are using and abusing the system!, they should take responsibility for their own problems! Do people actually think that 41 MILLION PEOPLE are underserving of this country's attention?!?!?! And do people really think that all of their life situations are the same?!?! Are people really standing up to say NOT WITH MY MONEY? Do people have any idea just how horribly MISMANAGED their money is and NOT just in healthcare. Are people really okay with the way things are now?? It's INCREDIBLY hypocritical that people can be seemingly non-chalant about the plight of people in OUR OWN COUNTRY when billions of dollars in humanitarian aid is sent to countries around the world every single year. Or that billions and billions of dollars line the pockets of filthy rich CEOs of huge government buying corporations. Yet, people are whining about the small amount that is used for the needy (mostly middle class) in your own backyard? What gives?

I NEVER implied that United States citizens who earn a decent living should pay more in taxes to resolve this problem--that would hurt me just as much as the next person--but that seems to be some people's EXACT focus. It's not rocket science (or brain surgery)! Our healthcare system SUCKS. We may have the best technology in the world, but we are sixth behind Norway, Australia, Canada, Sweden, and Belgium when it comes to delivering the healthcare that comes with that technology AND we spend more per capita on healthcare than those other 5 countries as well! (If anyone wants a link I'll post it--that is if the United Nations Human Development Report is good enough for ya.)

It's embaressing, and this country IS arrogant, and I've had more productive conversations with people who are not even involved in healthcare about this problem. But that's not to say that I haven't learned a lot from posts on this thread.

Can anyone see the big picture or not? Can you set aside liberal/conservative, democratic/republican, rich/poor or not? Do you prefer a healthcare savings account type of approach to this problem? What do you want? If you all are so good at managing your own money to be able to live a nice lifestyle and take care of yourselves, then I think that you should demand the same of YOUR government!

I'm tellin' ya, as a nurse and a human, I'd rather deal with a person of little means anyday than with those who feel their comfort supercede's anyone else's no matter what.

~Sally

Sally_ICURN · Jan 30, 2003

error

TNcanNURSE · Jan 30, 2003

Originally posted by Sally_ICURN
You took it out of context. Read the quote TN quoted then my reply...do I need to explain? If I was wrong, then I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Gee Sally...........I was merely agreeing with you. You're the one who says he is our oh so great leader. I agree he is great. You brought up his speech. I pointed out that he stated he wasn't in favor of nationalized health care because in your reply to Suzy you made it sound like he said "thats right Ms Sally, I totally agree with You. When you say all-knowing you ARE putting words into my mouth. It is beginning to look like there is someone on this very BB who thinks they are all-knowing.

Sally_ICURN · Jan 30, 2003

Okay, whatever, I'll strike it.

And your comment about me being all knowing---I'll take as a compliment.

TNcanNURSE · Jan 30, 2003

Originally posted by TNcanNURSE
there is someone on this very BB who thinks they are all-knowing.

Never said you. Never said anybody IS all-knowing either.

sony · Jan 30, 2003

This is a very good question. The answer is not an obvious one. I believe one should approach it by comparing it to other known rights that we have in this society; education, for instance. We know that, in our society, education is a right. I see health care as important as education. Therefore, I would agree; yes, I believe health care is a right. In terms of its cost, I will say as Abraham Lincoln said about education: "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." If you think universal health care is expensive, try a society where health care is virtually nonexistent.