Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's

[HM2VikingRN]

Health care advances in Cuba

According to the Associated Press as cited in the Post article, "Cuba has made recent advancements in biotechnology and exports its treatments to 40 countries around the world, raking in an estimated $100 million a year. ... In 2004, the U.S. government granted an exception to its economic embargo against Cuba and allowed a California drug company to test three cancer vaccines developed in Havana."

http://alternet.org/envirohealth/50911/?page=1

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

Tom, I just noticed that you wrote post 1000 of this thread. Congratulations.

As to the screed against the french my reaction was what did that have to do with health care. I posted about the french system as a possible place to learn about how to improve our system. Liberty, equality and brotherhood are common values that France and the US shares.

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

As to the screed against the french my reaction was what did that have to do with health care. I posted about the french system as a possible place to learn about how to improve our system. Liberty, equality and brotherhood are common values that France and the US shares.

Yeah, we could take that and run with it by comparing similar things that have happened in the US i.e. Wounded Knee, Hurricane Katrina, pre-civil rights movement, etc. But, as Viking says, none of that really pertains to this thread.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

[grv68]

i really enjoyed bbqvegan statement above.

i don't have any answers but continue to be inspired by what i have read of dr. paul farmer and his work in haiti and with pih. most folks may have heard of tracy kidder's book, mountains beyond mountains, but farmer's "pathologies of power" offers numerous case studies across many cultures and countries, including the us.

in contrast to michael moore's film which i think is his least sensationalistic by comparison i recommend salud for another perspective.

yes there has to be way because ultimately we all pay the price as a society.

trailer here http://www.saludthefilm.net/ns/synopsis.html

[fronkey bean]

i really enjoyed bbqvegan statement above.

i don't have any answers but continue to be inspired by what i have read of dr. paul farmer and his work in haiti and with pih. most folks may have heard of tracy kidder's book, mountains beyond mountains, but farmer's "pathologies of power" offers numerous case studies across many cultures and countries, including the us.

in contrast to michael moore's film which i think is his least sensationalistic by comparison i recommend salud for another perspective.

yes there has to be way because ultimately we all pay the price as a society.

trailer here http://www.saludthefilm.net/ns/synopsis.html

this is so strange. i just saw a report the other day on fox showing filthy conditions, shortages of meds and testimonies by cuban nationals on how bad cuba's health system is. having never been to cuba i can't say which report is true or (more likely) if there are elements of truth in both. no wonder it is so hard to get anything done today, truth is buried under a stinking pile of propaganda so that all people have to go on is their feelings and the need to be right.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

fox is american pravda. read mountains beyond mountains for a very interesting discussion about cuba's medical system.

according to who: http://www.who.int/whosis/database/core/core_select_process.cfm

cuba indicator value (year)

life expectancy at birth (years) males ? 75.0 (2005)

life expectancy at birth (years) females ? 79.0 (2005)

united states of america indicator value (year)

life expectancy at birth (years) males ? 75.0 (2005)

life expectancy at birth (years) females ? 80.0 (2005)

life expectancy at birth (years) males ?

country valuelatest year

cuba75.0 2005

united states of america75.0

2005life expectancy at birth (years) females ?

country valuelatest year

cuba79.0 2005

united states of america80.0 2005

essentially the same.....

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

cuba indicator value (year)

physicians (density per 1 000 population) ? 5.91 (2002)

nurses (density per 1 000 population) ? 7.44 (2002)

op cit.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

united states of america indicator value (year)

physicians (density per 1 000 population) ? 2.56

(2000) nurses (density per 1 000 population) ? 9.37 (2000)

op cit.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

infant mortality rate (per 1 000 live births) ?

country valuelatest year

cuba5.0 2005

united states of america7.0 2005

op cit.

[fronkey bean]

Hi Viking, I have to disagree w/ you about Fox, They aren't controled by the state, they just present the conservative side of news stories, usually w/ a liberal present to present opposing opinions. You can rarely say the same for CNN (about presenting opposing viewpoints I mean).

The statistics were interesting but not all that telling. The numbers for health professionals were from different years and did not include professionals other than MD's and RN's for Cuba (pharmacists and dentists, in some countries many of the tasks that would fall to these are performed by MD's and RN's which would somewhat negate having more). Also, while Cuba did have a lower infant mortality rate, it is telling to look at what is killing the children. Cuba has a higher incidence of death to infants for diarrhea, pneumonia, and "other causes". The only catogory where the US had a higher incidence of deaths among children under five was injuries. It seems we are better at saving children from communicable diseases but not at keeping them away from dangerous or violent situations, which is more of a legal than a health issue.

Another number which caught my eye was the disparity between what their gov't spends on health care per capita (201.8 US$) and what ours spends (2724.7). Even given the amount of greed and waste in the US system it is hard to believe the results reported by the Cubans given the amount of money spent. I wonder how much is un or under reported by the truly government controled beauracracy and media?

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

The data is collected by WHO which is about as nonpartisan as it gets. I think one difference between Cuba and the US from my (admittedly) cursory reading is their emphasis on putting primary care physicians and nurses in the neighborhoods. Cuba is a third/second world country so for them to achieve health outcome measures that are nearly as good as ours is a substantial accomplishment for a nation with limited resources. I also think that they have made policy decisions to invest their health care dollars into primary public health prevention strategies which are cheaper and do result in health cost savings. (I don't like their political system but I do think that we can always ask "what are they doing right?" for lessons to apply to our own country.)

We can agree to disagree about Fox. I personally think that the two best news outlets for indepth news coverage are NPR (radio) and CSPAN (television).

One of the things that I personally dislike about Fox is the implied smear or sensationalist news approach. I also dislike their criticism of dissidents. There has also been a pattern (see the Crooks and Liars website) of turning misbehaving republicans into democrats using onscreen graphics. That is dishonest and spinning the news. If you ever get a chance watch Robert Greenwalds "Outfoxed" for a very interesting discussion about media bias and Mr. Murdoch's corporate practices.