Quote from core0
This is what I was looking at. I may have misunderstood this.
"I felt..." past tense. Just a misunderstanding as you said.
Quote from core0
The action you are seeing here is supply and demand. There is a dearth of MD's willing to work in rural areas and they have significantly more debt than NPP's. This is the reason that they demand about double the salary of an NPP. The gap closes some with experience, but remains about 2x that. Remember that they can get along without you in the hospital, they cannot get along without a physician.
A dearth of MDs? Now that's a new one. Tell that to the administrator here. There sure aren't any beating down our doors.
I don't follow MD ads and I don't think that you can look at Locums jobs and get a sense of what a real salary is. The average salary for a FNP is about $152K Remembering that MD's get 15% more than NPP's for the same work. Average new grad salary is about $110-120k for FP. Some FP's can justify high salaries if they do Obstetrics (and pay the malpractice).
Here are a couple of articles on compensation:
I agree that locums isn't the same as regular salary. I don't think you'll find anyone smarter than a cinder block arguing that. But I'm not even talking about locum because that would not be pertinent. I'd look like an idiot trying to argue permanent salary against locum salary. I'm not even talking dollar amounts. Just compare the ones who even mention money. You'll find 1-2 out of 10 for NP/PAs and 7-8 out of 10 MD/DO. This is just supporting my argument that for anyone other than a MD/DO in heathcare to mention money is a mortal sin.
I don't follow MD ads, but I don't ignore them either, because it is pertinent to us in regards to family practice. As you said they get 15% more reimbursement, so why isn't our salary closer to 85% theirs? You mentioned productivity differences, which is understandable. But, with a productivity clause in your contract, you can negate that if you bust your *** and see the patients you need.
Yes there are locums contracts that offer that large amounts of money, but this is desperation since if you do not have an MD your rural clinic or Critical access hospital ceases to function. You will see similar things for HSPA clinics for NP or PA's since you need one or the other to run the clinic.
Wait, I thought there was a dearth of MDs willing to go rural. Why would anyone be desparate?
The average salary for new grad PA's in FP was $65k. $57k is between the 25th and 10th percentile. For a PA that would be low and I would be hesitant to take it but you also have to remember this is a negotiation. As far as salary equality, do you think a new grad NPP is operating at the same level as a new FP MD? There is a reason that they get paid more, its called medical school. Every study that I am aware of shows that MD's bill out more than NPP and get slightly more than NPP's in a compensation to production ratio.
This is a negotiation? Oh. I wasn't aware of that when I was trying to tell her how to negotiate to make good of that offer. And, I didn't know med school was longer and harder than NP/PA school. Oh, wait, I did say that earlier too. There is a difference, but studies show the averages. If someone regardless of their ability has a productivity clause, it will protect the smart and efficient ones from getting the shaft when they out do all the others. If someone is dumb or lazy and can't do it, then they won't be affected at all by the productivity clause.
If you were offering $57k for a specialty practice I would tell them to take a walk. For new grad FP in a rural area, $57k is a reasonable starting point for negotiation. If you are talking about an experienced FP NPP then you would be talking about mid 70's. Bottom line there is a fixed pot of money that can go for salaries. If you want to try to take some of that from the MD's go ahead. If you want to open your own clinic go ahead, but I think that you will find this a real learning experience.
Yes, I will learn that opening my own clinic isn't easy, and isn't without risk. But if you have the gonads it's one of the only ways to get paid fairly. This attitude that you are taking something from MDs or we are fighting over patients is rediculous. There are plenty of patients to go around. If you don't think so, just ask an ER doc and see how many ED visits could've been handled in the PCP office if they could get in within 2 weeks. That attitude is one of the reasons the AMA is fighting legislation that gives NP/PAs more practice rights because they have the same ideas in their minds of a silly turf war.