PA curriculum

[Jules A]

I received this from a friend. I am both envious and ashamed. Imagine no nursing theory, no leadership, no population health, no information systems, no 3 credit course on ethics? No 250-500 hours reported as clinical when in fact they are not clinical hours but are spent working on a paper.

[h=3]Courses[/h]

• PAS 6000 PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT SEMINAR
  
  
• PAS 6010 MEDICAL INTERVIEWING
  
  
• PAS 6020 PHYSICAL DIAGNOSIS I
  
  
• PAS 6030 PHYSICIAL DIAGNOSIS II
  
  
• PAS 6040 ANATOMY
  
  
• PAS 6050 PHYSIOLOGY
  
  
• PAS 6060 BIOCHEMISTRY
  
  
• PAS 6070 PATHOLOGY
  
  
• PAS 6090 PHARMACOLOGY
  
  
• PAS 6110 SURGICAL ASPECTS IN PRIMARY CARE
  
  
• PAS 6120 GENERAL SURGERY
  
  
• PAS 6130 SURGICAL SPECIALTIES
  
  
• PAS 6210 FUNDAMENTALS OF PRIMARY CARE & CLINICAL MEDICINE I
  
  
• PAS 6220 FUNDAMENTALS OF PRIMARY CARE & CLINICAL MEDICINE II
  
  
• PAS 6230 FUNDAMENTALS OF PRIMARY CARE & CLINICAL MEDICINE III
  
  
• PAS 6300 OBSTETRICS AND GYNECOLOGY
  
  
• PAS 6400 PEDIATRICS
  
  
• PAS 6500 EMERGENCY MEDICINE
  
  
• PAS 6600 PSYCHIATRY
  
  
• PAS 6700 BIOSTATISTICS
  
  
• PAS 6800 EPIDEMIOLOGY
  
  
• PAS 7010 INTERNAL MEDICINE I
  
  
• PAS 7020 INTERNAL MEDICINE II
  
  
• PAS 7030 GENERAL SURGERY I
  
  
• PAS 7040 GENERAL SURGERY II
  
  
• PAS 7050 FAMILY PRACTICE – Only for the Class of 2015
  
  
• PAS 7060 PRIMARY CARE
  
  
• PAS 7070 PEDIATRICS
  
  
• PAS 7080 GYNECOLOGY AND OBSTETRICS
  
  
• PAS 7090 EMERGENCY MEDICINE
  
  
• PAS 7100 GERIATRICS
  
  
• PAS 7110 PSYCHIATRY
  
  
• PAS 8000 RESEARCH METHODS
  
  
• PAS 8001 ADVANCED RESEARCH METHODOLOGY SEMINAR
  
  
• PAS 8010 SELECTIVE ONE Beginning with Class of 2015: ELECTIVE ONE
  
  
• PAS 8020 SELECTIVE TWO Beginning with Class of 2015: ELECTIVE TWO
  
  
• PAS 8030 SELECTIVE THREE Beginning with Class of 2015: ELECTIVE THREE
  
  
• PAS 8040 SELECTIVE FOUR Beginning with Class of 2015: ELECTIVE FOUR
  
  
• PAS 8050 SELECTIVE FIVE Beginning with Class of 2015: SELECTIVE
  
  https://gradschool.weill.cornell.edu/programs/health-sciences-physician-assistants
  
  

[Dodongo, APRN, NP]

I'll make two points. Either you don't have a complete view of the PA program rotations or they are violating ARC-PA standards. Each student must have supervised clinical rotations in:

a) family medicine,

b) internal medicine,

c) general surgery,

d) pediatrics,

e) ob/gyn and

f) behavioral and mental health care.

In addition supervised clinical experience must occur in the following locations:

a) outpatient,

b) emergency department,

c) inpatient and

d) operating room.

So if the PA students do not have inpatient/IM rotations the program is violating ARC-PA standards. In addition most programs have one or two elective rotations that can be tailored to student wishes. My program operated under older guidelines but we had 8 mandatory rotations (FP x 2, IM, Surgery, EM, OB/GYN. Psych, Peds) each 5 weeks (average 40-80 hours per week) and one elective rotation. I will also point out there is no requirement for ACNPs for example to have any ICU rotations.

http://www.arc-pa.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Standards-4th-Ed-March-2016.pdf

These PA students, per their own report, have an IM rotation but it's outpatient/clinic IM. They have a primary care/family med rotation (6 weeks), IM (6 weeks), an EM (6 weeks), surgery (6 weeks), OB (3 weeks), peds (3 weeks), psych (3 weeks) and an elective.

These students admit they feel they are not prepared to work in specialty practice upon graduation. If they are violating ARC-PA standards they don't have another review until 2024. Plus, it's one of those programs that will take students with no previous HC experience and it shows.

Also, the goal of ACNP programs isn't necessarily to create an ICU provider - just an acute care provider. So all clinicals are conducted in an acute care setting. Most programs do include some critical care rotation. There are a few that state that's their mission by only accepting RNs with a critical care background and having mandatory rotations (my program included).

The fact is, NP specialty tracks produce providers who are able to practice in those specialties, and PA programs are hit or miss with this. I'll definitely agree that the FNP tracks do not produce a consistently dependable product like PA programs.

I get that you're a PA so you're coming to defense of PA programs everywhere, but I have at least 2 in my area that produce pretty subpar PA providers. The other school near me does a decent job with their grads. Similarly, there are 2 FNP programs that produce NP providers who are hit or miss, while the other school (the same that has a good PA program) produces good NP grads.

[Jules A, MSN]

I get that you're a PA so you're coming to defense of PA programs everywhere, but I have at least 2 in my area that produce pretty subpar PA providers. The other school near me does a decent job with their grads. Similarly, there are 2 FNP programs that produce NP providers who are hit or miss, while the other school (the same that has a good PA program) produces good NP grads.

Perhaps it is area dependent? I currently have privileges at 5 hospitals and all use more PAs than NPs especially as hospitalists. I prefer the PAs over NPs but maybe it is because there is such a small sample size of NPs?

[Dodongo, APRN, NP]

Perhaps it is area dependent? I currently have privileges at 5 hospitals and all use more PAs than NPs especially as hospitalists. I prefer the PAs over NPs but maybe it is because there is such a small sample size of NPs?

I'm sure there are wide variations depending on location. In my neck of the woods the ICUs are staffed >90% or more by NPs and the inpatient positions are split pretty evenly between NPs and PAs except for surgery which is >95% PAs (these percentages are estimates...). Outpatient positions are generally more NP heavy. I'm sure that's simply for the fact that there are more NPs out there.

I'm not trying to bag on PAs here. I think the majority of PA programs make better providers than FNP programs. Easily. But I also think specialty NP programs make better specialty providers than PA programs. And while I think most NP programs need a major overhaul, I have 2 PA programs right down the road from me that are lacking pretty badly as well. I already spoke about the one, but the other is pretty similar to NP programs - they only just recently began requiring a pre-admission interview, no cadaver lab, it's a mix of PBL and online learning.

If I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, or if I was sure I wanted to work in primary care, or lived in a different area of the country, or wasn't an RN already, then I would have gone PA. But it's not the best path across the board.